Poll on America

[lavell12]

Rasmussen has conducted a very important and telling poll about the state of people's beliefs of America.


61% of Americans believe America is Noble
30% of Americans believe America is non-noble country


77% of Republicans believe America is Noble
44% of Dems believe America is Noble
44% of Dems believe America is un-noble

This just proofs America made a mistake in electing this party in to power at a time of such importance. The left believes America is the cause of the world problems.

[oyhstah crachah]

I think what you mean to say is that the left doesn't blindly point fingers at other people as the source of our problems and tries to take a deep, hard look at ourselves... Last time I checked blind faith wasn't a good thing...

[Chief Knockahoma]

I think what you mean to say is that the left doesn't blindly point fingers at other people as the source of our problems and tries to take a deep, hard look at ourselves... Last time I checked blind faith wasn't a good thing...

:clap::clap::clap:

[FalconPride]

Rasmussen has conducted a very important and telling poll about the state of people's beliefs of America.


61% of Americans believe America is Noble
30% of Americans believe America is non-noble country


77% of Republicans believe America is Noble
44% of Dems believe America is Noble
44% of Dems believe America is un-noble

This just proofs America made a mistake in electing this party in to power at a time of such importance. The left believes America is the cause of the world problems.
What you meant to say was that "Dems" don't blindly support their country's retarded decisions as if they could do no wrong. The left believes America can do better than they currently are which is why they voted to change America. Hell, a good portion of the middle agreed and a growing portion of right also concurred.

Seriously, learn how to read a poll before you comment on it.

[KB 34]

The right wing was sick of seeing liberals with R's next to their names and refused to vote republican for the sake of voting republican. Look at the ballot initiatives and then try to tell how moderate Americans are! Oh, and if evaluating a situation is figuring out how to send US troops to jail for doing their jobs, not counting military votes, and having a plan for Iraq that amounts to whatever Bush doesn't want, then the democrats in Washington are truly evaluating the problem. This whole election made me sick. America lost because the liberals of today would love to turn the US over to the UN and the so called "republicans" don't want much better.

[FalconPride]

The right wing was sick of seeing liberals with R's next to their names and refused to vote republican for the sake of voting republican. Look at the ballot initiatives and then try to tell how moderate Americans are! Oh, and if evaluating a situation is figuring out how to send US troops to jail for doing their jobs, not counting military votes, and having a plan for Iraq that amounts to whatever Bush doesn't want, then the democrats in Washington are truly evaluating the problem. This whole election made me sick. America lost because the liberals of today would love to turn the US over to the UN and the so called "republicans" don't want much better.
Not listening to the Democrats is your problem, not theirs. Believing whatever dumbass thing Drudge puts up is also your problem, not theirs. You obviously know nothing about liberals.

[lavell12]

Not listening to the Democrats is your problem, not theirs. Believing whatever dumbass thing Drudge puts up is also your problem, not theirs. You obviously know nothing about liberals.

I think this is more than the lefts view of just the Bush administration, it has been the view of the people on the left about the founding fathers as if we have to apologize for our own heritige. You think the left even likes celebrating Thanksgiving.

[lavell12]

The right wing was sick of seeing liberals with R's next to their names and refused to vote republican for the sake of voting republican. Look at the ballot initiatives and then try to tell how moderate Americans are! Oh, and if evaluating a situation is figuring out how to send US troops to jail for doing their jobs, not counting military votes, and having a plan for Iraq that amounts to whatever Bush doesn't want, then the democrats in Washington are truly evaluating the problem. This whole election made me sick. America lost because the liberals of today would love to turn the US over to the UN and the so called "republicans" don't want much better.

exactly exit polls showed 56% of Americas consider them selves CONSERVATIVE while only 28% consider themselves LIBERAL. Saying Bush is an idiot and liar is not a plan. Im not to worried its only going to be 2 years my friend.

Look at these dems who won like James Webb former Republican who is still pretty damn conservative, heck he and others are alot closer to George Bush than Nancy Pelosi. This election was a referendum on the Republicans not because the war but because they spent money like Democrats and that is Bush's biggest mistake. The Republican base went away from them, if the Republicans stick to conservative values and the Democrats stick to liberal values (oximorone) the GOP will win everytime.

Here are the values of Liberalism and Conservatism

Conservative
1 Strong Defense
2 Low Taxation
3 Low spending (we believe its up to you not the gov't to spend your cash)
4 Strong Traditions (red/white/blue, family, religion, not gay)
Liberalism
1 Defense (police not military)
2 Taxation
3 Gov't spending (gov't knows how best to spend your money)
4 New age (no need for tradition)
5 Political correctness (everything must be fair)

[FalconPride]

I think this is more than the lefts view of just the Bush administration, it has been the view of the people on the left about the founding fathers as if we have to apologize for our own heritige. You think the left even likes celebrating Thanksgiving.
Honestly, you are making about zero sense. Seriously, stop talking. People are complex creatures. Well, most of them. And it's completely possible to take pride in your country and heritage while not glossying over the faults and problems your country has faced and does face. Not doing so is more a staple of something you might love. Communism. Dictatorship.

More stupidity from you.
Liberalism
1 Defense (police not military)
2 Taxation
3 Gov't spending (gov't knows how best to spend your money)
4 New age (no need for tradition)
5 Political correctness (everything must be fair)
Why speak about things you obviously have no idea about? First off, you know what kept the terrorist attack via airplane in England a few months ago from becoming a reality? Good hard policework. Not bombing the wrong country. The military is part of security; the police is a major part. But yeah, spend a crapload of money on smart bombs that kill 150,000 civilians and piss off more people. The military doesn't care (one) about its soldiers and (two) about paying for its soldiers. It cares about having new toys. That pisses me off since I came from a military family and saw just how little they cared about the actual people. Idiots like Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II allowed that to continue. Clinton tried to reign in with budget cuts, but predictably, instead of cutting military projects that were not working, the military cut funding to soldiers and their families. Give me a break. The military isn't going to keep the terrorists from attacking us and if you even believe that, you should take a pencil, sharpen it real good, and stick it right in your eye because it makes about as much sense.

What else? Taxation. Well, sorry, but the founding fathers thought that was a good idea, too. Ever heard of the Constitution? Article One, Section Eight: "The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;" Those bastard liberals with their taxing of people. See, this just in. When the country spends at an asinine rate, you have to raise taxes to pay for it. Or, you just go in debt. You know what that means? That means countries like China and Saudi Arabia own our ass. You want to know why Taiwan is for the taking for China? Because the second we say, "hey...wait..." they are going to be like the pimp they are for us. "Where's our money, bitch?" They buy our debt and now they own us. Why? Because we have idiots who believe that taxes is a problem. No, it's simply not. Is it great? Hell no. In a perfect world, there would be no taxes. But we don't live in a perfect world and taxes are inevitable. Hell, they are NEEDED! You going to cry about taxes? Blame the founders.

The government DOES know how to spend the money they collect better than you do. You take a $250 tax cut and bust it on beer, movies, and gay porn. The government, however, can put all that money to better use. Pay down the debt, keep the budget balanced, fix the social security or medicare problems. You pay into the system and the system works FOR you.

New age? No use for tradition? Seriously, where do you get this crap? Oh, in your conservative crap (which, it basically is), you mention, "(red/white/blue, family, religion, not gay)." Did the liberals suddenly change the colors of the flag? No. Are they fighting the rights of families? Hell, the conservative's little wet dream, George Allen, voted twice against the maternity leave protection. Seems like he, and other conservatives who are basically bending over with a smile for the corporations in this country, don't care too much about families. Religion? Um, since when is that a conservative value only? No, you guys have as many asinine religious nuts as the liberals. As for gay...um, that IS traditional. It's been around forever. You think suddenly homosexuals showed up? But hey, how about this? Traditions CHANGE. Why aren't you railing for slavery? That was so traditional. Or, hell, keeping schools seperate. Are you whining about having to drink from the same water fountain as "coloreds?" Are you bitching about the fact that women aren't staying home and having dinner ready for their Leave it to Beaver family? Hell, did you hear about the fact that for some cracked out reason, men can not longer beat their wives or rape them whenever they want? That's traditional. And my God, there was a woman on TV the other day who was a single mother! For shame! Seriously, want to talk traditions? Why do you get to pick which ones are acceptable and which ones aren't? Oh, because you want to make your "morals" everyone's "morals." Well, quit it. You aren't that smart for everyone to take their cue from you.

And finally...political correctness...which is not the same as "everything needs to be fair." There is an entire term for that. It's called Equal Rights. They've had pieces of legislature with that term in it. People act like PC has been around so recently. Um, no, it was used in a Supreme Court case in the 1700's. And how is PC defined? And have you bothered to learn that just as many liberal authors have denounced the term. Hell, all the so-called liberal comedians aren't PC. In reality, PC is one of those terms people lacking a point like to bring up because it sounds so bad, but really, once again, THEY HAVE NO POINT!

All of this may have sounded harsh. I would apologize, but I don't care to be PC. You know surprisingly less about liberals than you do about our founding fathers.

Oh, and your exit poll line was about the dumbest part of the entire spiel. You obviously read the poll wrong. First off, polls were split state-by-state. Most Americans, according to Pew Research Polls, consider themselves to be moderate, not conservative or liberal. Exit polls only guage the people who actually vote. They do nothing to guage the American population. And surprise, surprise, the most partisan of people vote more than the non-partisan, don't give a shit types.

Honestly...go to school.

God, that irritated me.

[vnodnarb]

who do you guys think will be the top candidate for the Democrats and for the Republicans in 08? and who do you think will win?

[KB 34]

Falcon Pride, I was going to address a few things issue by issue but I see it's not worth it. You're so transparent that everyone can see your contempt for the American ideals. Just remember that the American people aren't as stupid as you might like to think. The country is conservative and it's not going to change. If you don't like the US, there are plenty of illegal immigrants who would beg to differ and would give anything to live a day in the life of a middle class American. Just think about that for a minute.

[FalconPride]

Falcon Pride, I was going to address a few things issue by issue but I see it's not worth it. You're so transparent that everyone can see your contempt for the American ideals. Just remember that the American people aren't as stupid as you might like to think. The country is conservative and it's not going to change. If you don't like the US, there are plenty of illegal immigrants who would beg to differ and would give anything to live a day in the life of a middle class American. Just think about that for a minute.
If I don't like the US? God, it's like speaking to a child not capable of rational complex thinking.

[KB 34]

If I don't like the US? God, it's like speaking to a child not capable of rational complex thinking.
You can insult my intelligence all day long but a true sign of knowledge is realizing that thought processes differ and not rushing to conclusions because opinions differ. Great minds like Darwin and Galileo were despised for this exact reason.

[FalconPride]

You can insult my intelligence all day long but a true sign of knowledge is realizing that thought processes differ and not rushing to conclusions because opinions differ. Great minds like Darwin and Galileo were despised for this exact reason.
Opinions do differ, but you said I didn't like the US. Again, who rushed to a conclusion they know nothing about? Or when did I say the American people are stupid? They're panic driven and love a fad, but I wouldn't call them stupid. You called them that for me.

Your sudden bravado is comical. Suddenly, you are above the frey, yet were engaging in just a day before.

Here's the problem. I don't make excuses for the United States. We are what we are and we can't hide that. We can't hide that Iran hates us so much because of things we have done to that country since the 50's. We can't hide that. Are they right? Hell no. But are we? Hell no. From the moment this asinine war with Iraq was being discussed, I knew we were in for hell because these idiots in power knew absolutely nothing about what we were fighting. They knew how to bomb the crap out of it, but they didn't know what "it" was. And that kind of stuff scares the bejesus out of me because I have to watch my country, the one my father fought for, acting like the playground bully who is more concerned with looking tough than being fighting for substance.

I don't pretend to know everything, but I do hate it when I see people who obviously know nothing pretend to know every little damn thing. Lavell is definitely the extreme case of that. Someone who probably hasn't been in a political class his entire life defining what conservatism and liberalism is in the United States. Barry Goldwater is rolling in his grave by what that guy tried to label as the conservative agenda.

[KB 34]

We're in trouble in Iraq and Iraqn because of failures that could have been prevented. Thank you Jimmy Carter for screwing up Iran. Iraq was handled wrong after about day 3. I've read stuff about how incredible the actual invasion was. It's one of the great military feats of modern history. The problem is that Rumsfeld must have started skipping class after the last of the invasion lectures. One of the great minds in Iraq today is former General Georges Sada. Sada was one of Saddam's trusted aides even though he refused to join the Baath party and routinely said things that would get others shot on the spot. Early on he told the US that if they gave him control of the Iraqi Airforce he's clean up Baghdad. He was refused foolishly. He also points out that the Iraqi army didn't especially like Saddam but were extremly ticked when the US came, disbanded them, and took away their retirements. Then there is the war of propaganda where instead of using MacArthur tactics of reeducation, who knows what is happening. Then we have the open border policy that Bush wants not only for the US but for Iraq as well. Really convenient for terrorists to enter Iraq and I believe that if a wall was built today Bush would leave office with a 60% approval rating. The war was inevitable because Saddam was going to get nuclear weapons and something was going to happen. The problem is that Bush is too busy trying to fight a politically-correct war to win it. In comparison to other wars the US has fought in the price hasn't been as high but given the circumstances victory should have come years ago because it could have. What's terrible today is that no one either can see the obvious problems or wants to fix them. Don't try saying the cut and run policy will work. Bush needs to grow a spine and take control with the leadership he showed for about 1 week in 2001. Unfortunately he'd rather send troops to Camp Pendleton for doing their jobs than letting them win in Iraq the way it must be done.

[FalconPride]

You can also blame just about every US President since Eisenhower...possibly Truman for Iran. But leave it up for the "Drudge Report" fan to blame Carter. As for Sada, he has been discredited so many times, he makes that gay porn reporter the White House loved look good. Sada is an opportunist. Call a spade a spade.

Saddam wasn't going to get anything. You know why it was so easy for the US to come in and take him out of power? Because he had control of about a third of his country. But he was going to get nukes? Come on. That's some lovely revisionist history, but that's about it.

We aren't going to win in Iraq. It's the same as Vietnam. The soldiers don't want to be there (who can blame them?). They're doing their job, though they don't even really know what their job is anymore. Frankly, the fact we are still there is the ultimate proof that Bush and Co. don't have one damn idea about what they're fighting. It's not cut-and-run. It's understanding, for the first time, what the hell we've got ourselves into.

We are killing too many innocent people for this war to have any purpose anymore. We have instances of war crimes (big surprise that we don't want to be part of the War Crime Tribunal, eh?). This war is purposeless, worthless, and idiotic. Worst of all...it's the definition of insanity.

[KB 34]

If the soldier don't weant to be there, then why didn't they support the democrats who advocate cutting and running? And don't even start talking about war crimes. Few people know it but in the days of the US Colonial rule over the Philippines there were real war crimes done. We're talking about so many villages of 10,000 being burned that senators at post-war hearings couldn't keep them straight. I suggest reading a few quotes of General Bayard Smith.

What about Sada is suppose to be so fake? Calling him a fraud is rather weak without giving real reasons to doubt his accomplishments.

[Nic]

You can also blame just about every US President since Eisenhower...possibly Truman for Iran. But leave it up for the "Drudge Report" fan to blame Carter. As for Sada, he has been discredited so many times, he makes that gay porn reporter the White House loved look good. Sada is an opportunist. Call a spade a spade.

Saddam wasn't going to get anything. You know why it was so easy for the US to come in and take him out of power? Because he had control of about a third of his country. But he was going to get nukes? Come on. That's some lovely revisionist history, but that's about it.

We aren't going to win in Iraq. It's the same as Vietnam. The soldiers don't want to be there (who can blame them?). They're doing their job, though they don't even really know what their job is anymore. Frankly, the fact we are still there is the ultimate proof that Bush and Co. don't have one damn idea about what they're fighting. It's not cut-and-run. It's understanding, for the first time, what the hell we've got ourselves into.

We are killing too many innocent people for this war to have any purpose anymore. We have instances of war crimes (big surprise that we don't want to be part of the War Crime Tribunal, eh?). This war is purposeless, worthless, and idiotic. Worst of all...it's the definition of insanity.

Thank you for actually bringing an intelligent voice into this thread.

[FalconPride]

If the soldier don't weant to be there, then why didn't they support the democrats who advocate cutting and running? And don't even start talking about war crimes. Few people know it but in the days of the US Colonial rule over the Philippines there were real war crimes done. We're talking about so many villages of 10,000 being burned that senators at post-war hearings couldn't keep them straight. I suggest reading a few quotes of General Bayard Smith.

What about Sada is suppose to be so fake? Calling him a fraud is rather weak without giving real reasons to doubt his accomplishments.
Contrary to popular belief, not everyone looks at the world in black and white blinders. But I guess you're like Bush that way and believe if soldiers don't want to be there, they support Democrats. By the way, how many solders did vote Democrat this year? Do you have the number?

You're comparing entirely different time periods. Again, try to look at things with a rational mind. I suggest remembering we're in the year 2006. We should be better and more civilized. Seriously, maybe this lack of historical context flies at the Drudge Report, but not here with people who actually can think for themselves.

When Sada wrote that crap about Iraq shifting the WMD's to Syria, I knew then he was a complete opportunist, looking to give America a reach around while he played the little puppet.

[FalconPride]

Thank you for actually bringing an intelligent voice into this thread.
Thank you, Nic.

[lavell12]

If the soldier don't weant to be there, then why didn't they support the democrats who advocate cutting and running? And don't even start talking about war crimes. Few people know it but in the days of the US Colonial rule over the Philippines there were real war crimes done. We're talking about so many villages of 10,000 being burned that senators at post-war hearings couldn't keep them straight. I suggest reading a few quotes of General Bayard Smith.

What about Sada is suppose to be so fake? Calling him a fraud is rather weak without giving real reasons to doubt his accomplishments.

the real truth is the dems feel guilty for America's successes and therefore they blame America for the world's problems.

[FalconPride]

Oh, yay, Dr. Lavell has provided his expert diagnosis! Let's see what he says!

the real truth is the dems feel guilty for America's successes and therefore they blame America for the world's problems.

Guilty? Nah. Taking it into context? Hell yeah. You're clueless, dude. Alicea Silverstone has nothing on you. First, you're flatout incapable of making a point to anyone who can read. That's a big problem. Second, showing how "smart" you iz may not be the best approach for someone like you. You probably didn't get that joke, though. And third...you're a broken record. If Rush, Hannity, Savage, Gibson, Hume, O'Reilly, or whatever dumbass you listen to said it, you'll repeat it. However, you forget. They're dumbasses.

I don't feel guilty about America's successes, nor do I blame her for the world's problems. She certainly ain't helping, though. Any reasonable mind will know that everytime we try to install our "better-than-thou" system, it blows up. Iran? Yeah, that worked out well. Iraq? How's that looking? Cuba? LOL. People have to want a system before you can throw it at them. But idiots keep thinking that just because democracy works for us, it will work for everyone. Deductive reasoning would show that democracy hasn't worked everywhere, or it at least hasn't always brought the best results. It would also show that we only care about democracy when it helps us. Vietnam? Didn't help us.

Honestly, wake up. Someday, you'll going to need to think and if you don't use your brain regularly, it goes backwards and eventually, becomes mush. Even you can't want that.

[oyhstah crachah]

the real truth is the dems feel guilty for America's successes and therefore they blame America for the world's problems.
drew, the picture is going to find its way over here... ;) (pretend the smiley isn't smiling)

[nickzilla6066]

As opposed to the childish banter between right and left, let me explain someting, neither the left or right works very well on its own. Liberals tend to ignore the great amount of good that the market can do for people of all classes, prefering to throw vast amounts of control to government agencies that are inefficient and wasteful and trying to solve every problem with overarching social programs that usually just gloss over larger problems; sometimes liberals outright misdiagnose problems and enact retarded do nothing legislation. Conservatives on the other hand too often ignore the fatal flaws of the market (it does need some regulation to be at its most useful) and tend to ignore the good that some social programs do accomplish, often using completely illogical and religiously based dogma to support their viewpoints.

As for arguing about intelligence, their is no difference between liberals or conservatives intelligence wise, every "study" or the like you will find is either partisan or poor science. Liberals and conservatives both tend to ignore logic if it goes against their world viewpoint and will usually believe someone of similar beliefs over others (explaining why conservatives watch Fox while liberals watch CNN).

[FalconPride]

Ah, the centrist argument. Always there, always playing in generalities. It's fun! It's so easy to label someone else's banter as childish while ignoring the title of their reply as "both idiots." Like I said, fun!

[nickzilla6066]

Not so much a "centrist" argument as one that acknowledges that neither the right or the left is particularly desirable or superior to the other. I tend to lean towards the republican view points on most things (particularly economic issues) but the recent surge of religious BS that has moved the party in the last few years has just disgusted me beyond belief. Just do the damn stem cell research and stop worrying about abortion (I don't like it but can't say I particularly care in all honesty). As for the Democrats stop worrying about the ten commandments in court houses (I wouldn't care if they put Hammurabi's code or the Egyptian book of the dead on the wall, it hardly hurts me) and quit bitching about executing murderers, rapists and child molestors.
Again, not so much centrist as just picking and choosing parts that I like or dislike from both sides.

[nickzilla6066]

who do you guys think will be the top candidate for the Democrats and for the Republicans in 08? and who do you think will win?

The big name out for the Democrats is Hillary Clinton (though I doubt she is viable, too many people see her as too leftist), Republicans might look to Bill Frist (dear god no) or perhaps even Newt Gingrich.
As for who will win, somebody not on this list. Every election someone comes completely out of nowhere to carry the thing.

[KB 34]

I'd rather have 4 more years of Bush than 4 years of Frist. Come to think of it I'd rather give Rumsfeld another chance before turning things over to Frist. Newt is also a complete joke and shouldn't be considered. The Republicans were great at demanding that Bill Clinton take responsibility for his behavior with hotties. The same should be demanded of Newt (and Guliani for that matter). I'm thinking the Republicans go with McCain and the democrats go with Hillary but my dream ticket is Tom Tancredo/Ted Poe

[KB 34]

You're comparing entirely different time periods. Again, try to look at things with a rational mind. I suggest remembering we're in the year 2006. We should be better and more civilized. Seriously, maybe this lack of historical context flies at the Drudge Report, but not here with people who actually can think for themselves.

When Sada wrote that crap about Iraq shifting the WMD's to Syria, I knew then he was a complete opportunist, looking to give America a reach around while he played the little puppet.
I find it very interesting that you argue that in 100 years the US should be more civilized yet don't really go into parameters of how far the evolution of civilization should proceed. My knowledge about the US colonial rule of the Philippines happens to come from a major research project last year. The Drudge Report was really of no use. I spent hours reading transcripts of senate hearings from the time period. You see, it's very difficult to see how far humanity has come without running into historical events like this. My original ideas for my paper didn't even include the attrocities that I found out about. When the Club Ditmo accusations came out I couldn't imagine what would happen to Teddy Roosevelt today if such accusations came to light. If only the acerage American knew what the "water cure" was I think there'd be more realistic expectations today.

So Sada says weapons were shipped to Syria, would you honestly be suprised if this were confirmed some day? I think the best way to look at the WMD debate is through Occam's razor. I'll leave it at that.

[FalconPride]

The fact that water boarding is concerned torture is all I need to know on how far our civiliation has evolved. It's pretty simple. You can continue to ignore the historical contex, though.

[Jsh1284]

I nominate myself to run for the Anarchist party.

Cool paradox, huh? VOTE FOR ME!

[KB 34]

I nominate myself not to run for president because it requires insane hours, has a high assasination rate, pays horribly, requires dealing with lots of pedophiles, and results in being hated by lots of people whether a good job or bad job is done in office. Here's my final evidence. Is this aging bad or what!?!?!
http://www.gregspotts.com/photos/uncategorized/bushswearinsmoall.jpg
http://www.crankyconsumer.org/archives/ap_George_Bush_Freedom_House_29mar06_210.jpg

[Jsh1284]

I think he aged so much because he does cocaine with Marion Barry.

[oyhstah crachah]

/snicker

[KB 34]

From my reading Bush smoked pots in his younger years but never went as far as cocaine. Clinton was the rebel who is believed to have used some coke. When Roger Clinton was being taped he talked about "get some more for my brother. He's got a nose like a vacuum cleaner." See "George and Laura" and "Bill and Hillary: The Marriage" both by Christopher Andersen for more lovely dirt like this.