Dans Francoeur Nous Nous Fions

[JCStone7]

Dans Francoeur Nous Nous Fions
by: Jonathan C. Stone (http://www.braves-nation.com/forums/member.php?u=356) | Braves-Nation.com

Jeffrey Braden Francoeur, the Gold Glove right fielder for your Atlanta Braves. That just rolls off the tongue doesn't it? The Golden Boy, The Natural, Franc the Tank, or Frenchy; call him what you want but I hope you don't call him a disappointment. Critics say he overachieved in 2005 ever since he was called up on July 7, 2005 straight from AA-Mississippi and hit a back-breaking three-run homerun in the eighth inning and received a curtain call from the fans at Turner Field against the Chicago Cubs.

He only finished with a .300 Batting Average with 14 HR's and a .336 On-Base Percentage while compiling a .549 Slugging Percentage. Francoeur finished third in the National League Rookie of the Year vote finishing behind 2006 MVP Ryan Howard and then Astro Willy Taveras even though he played in only 70 games.

With that kind of monster half of a season Frenchy was dubbed "The Natural" by Sports Illustrated even giving him the cover photo. So everyone expected Francoeur with his swing first, ask questions later attitude to fall on his face in his sophomore season.

Granted he didn't put up the numbers he would've wanted when he hit only .260 while his slugging percentage dropped a full point and his On-Base Percentage almost half a point. Judging on those numbers alone it looks like a disappointment and regression while his best friend Brian McCann enjoyed great success. Although Frenchy's numbers dipped he still hit 29 homeruns and drove in 103 and hit .320 with runners in scoring position. So you could say he picked his spots. Not to mention nailing down 14 more runners on the basepaths.

In 2006 Francoeur had the misfortune of being labeled the "next Atlanta superstar" and every thing he did or say would be scrutinized. His main criticisms from 2006 were his impatience at the plate. Fortunately for Braves fans, Francoeur went to work in the off-season.

Like most professional athletes they know their strengths and weaknesses. Just like Michael Jordan was criticized for his defense or lack there of, so what did Jordan do? Went to work. He then came back the next season and was a lock-down defender and all it took was blood, sweat, and work ethic. Same could be said for Jeff Francoeur. He knew he had to learn patience and to learn the whole field instead of pulling the ball constantly.

Terry Pendleton and Francoeur had an off-season of simple hitting mechanics training. Wait on the ball, shorten your stride, go the other way with two strikes. To those who said Francoeur would never sniff a .300 batting average had to re-evaluate their thoughts when he hovered near or at .300 all of 2007 and finally finished with a line of .293/.338/.444 and also played Gold Glove defense nailing down a league leading 19 outfield assists.

Francoeur's power numbers dipped by 10 homeruns but he drove in 105 while hitting sixth in the order with Andruw Jones hitting behind him in the second half of the season. Obviously he's horrible so let's run him out of town. :rolleyes: Every one criticizes him for his plate discipline and he has a very solid year at the dish. Then they turned to his dipping power numbers. Basically damned if you do, damned if you don't. The downside of being the "next great thing" I suppose. But to nay say Francoeur is to give him fuel to the fire of getting better.

He's proven that he's committed to this whole baseball thing; so the question is now can Frenchy re-produce the power he showed in 2006 with the plate prowess of 2007?

I believe so, I'm not going to BS the readers, I never thought Francoeur would sniff .275 for an entire season let alone a .293 and he proved me wrong not to mention giving the critics a big fat :refuck:.

His Slugging only dropped a miniscule five one thousandths of a point. It's not like he doesn't provide extra-base hits at all. I believe he's just got a smoother, more refined swing as of right now that doesn't have that homerun uppercut in it. Frenchy simply took what the pitcher gave him, and with Andruw Jones hitting behind him he really didn't get the greatest pitches to hit.

Francoeur has proven with his work ethic in the 2006-2007 off-season he can improve. So history will repeat itself this off-season. His power numbers will go up while still maintaining a .280 average at minimum! That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

PS ~ If you're not satisfied with Jeff Francoeur's service as Atlanta's right fielder then you should simply "get the hell out of Dodge." We can always go back to re-treads Raul Mondesi and Brian Jordan in right field and callled it a day.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Here's to him continuing his improvement and putting it all together. :)

[josephw000]

Heres to him going and having a amazing career, hopefully all here in ATL, ALA Chipper....

[JayDonnelly10]

I love Brian Jordan! Haha Frenchy is da Man!

[chip&smoltz95]

yea i hope he stays in atlanta... i have heard people say that he is gonna want alot for his next contract. i hope the braves can find a way to keep him, AND tex.

when is frenchy's contract up?

[JCStone7]

yea i hope he stays in atlanta... i have heard people say that he is gonna want alot for his next contract. i hope the braves can find a way to keep him, AND tex.

when is frenchy's contract up?

He's still under club control, but he's probably going to be a "Super Two" player and be able to go to arbitration.

[vnodnarb]

I figured I'd post about the arbitration process and being a "Super Two" as I had to look it up...

A player with three or more years of service, but less than six years, may file for salary arbitration. In addition, a player can be classified as a Super Two and be eligible for arbitration with less than three years of service. A player with at least two but less than three years of Major League service shall be eligible for salary arbitration if he has accumulated at least 86 days of service during the immediately preceding season and he ranks in the top 17 percent in total service in the class of Players who have at least two but less than three years of Major League service, however accumulated, but with at least 86 days of service accumulated during the immediately preceding season.

[JCStone7]

Thanks for looking that up and giving everyone an explanation V. I was too lazy to go into detail.

[HeidiBee21]

Thanks for the definition B

and great article as usual JC. I appreciate all of your hard work!

[JCStone7]

and great article as usual JC. I appreciate all of your hard work!

Thanks Heidi!

[SamtheBravesFan]

Despite what he's done, he can't command THAT much money just yet.

[brnt247]

His swing is great and he is spraying the ball to all fields. He can still hit for power and his arm in RF is top tier. However, his philosophy about hitting is why I still don't believe he is what everyone thinks and wants him to be. Until he can get the mindset to wait for a good pitch to hit then he won't be a top level player. Once he does that, if he does that, then he will prove to be a good player to put this team on his backbone. He has more raw talent than anyone on the Braves in my opinion, now he just needs to realize how to maximize it. Once he draws more walks, he'll get better pitches to hit and help the Braves out more than imaginable.

[SamtheBravesFan]

His swing is great and he is spraying the ball to all fields. He can still hit for power and his arm in RF is top tier. However, his philosophy about hitting is why I still don't believe he is what everyone thinks and wants him to be. Until he can get the mindset to wait for a good pitch to hit then he won't be a top level player. Once he does that, if he does that, then he will prove to be a good player to put this team on his backbone. He has more raw talent than anyone on the Braves in my opinion, now he just needs to realize how to maximize it. Once he draws more walks, he'll get better pitches to hit and help the Braves out more than imaginable.

The situation is this then: A lot of people think he is a star already, and Scott Boras will do everything he can to exploit that. So, how in the stinking world can the Braves sign him and not have to pay too much?

[McCarroll21]

May I ask what the hell Boras has to do with anything? I haven't found anything stating that Boras is Francoeur's agent.

[JayDonnelly10]

May I ask what the hell Boras has to do with anything? I haven't found anything stating that Boras is Francoeur's agent.

I looked for who Francoeurs agent was right after I saw that previous post and I havent found anything yet....

[McCarroll21]

His Slugging only dropped a miniscule five one thousandths of a point. It's not like he doesn't provide extra-base hits at all.That may be true, but given the fact that his batting average was higher, thus more hits, his isoSLG has dipped more than five points.

Francoeur's 2007 isoSLG (SLG-AVG) was .151. Keep that number in mind, while also remembering that Francoeur is supposed to be a power threat.

When you think of Brian Giles and Luis Gonzalez, what do you think? If you're anything like me, you think of guys that are past the glory days of their career and losing power. Guess what? Giles's isoSLG in 2007, .145. Just six points away from Francoeur. Gonzalez's isoSLG in 2007, .155. Four points higher than Francoeur.

Year - Hits - XBH - XBH % - isoSLG
2005 - 77 - 35 - 45.45% - .249
2006 - 169 - 59 - 34.91% - .189
2007 - 188 - 59 - 31.38% - .151

So you see, his SLG percentage my not show a drop in power, but that's because he had more singles. He had more one base at-bats this year than zero base at-bats, but with 19 more hits, his extra base hits stayed the same (16 more doubles, 6 less triples, 10 less homers).

Another thing to notice among his stats is that in 2005, even his supporters will say he got lucky. He got lucky in that everything he hit fell in somewhere, and what happened in 2006 is the luck wasn't there. His batting average on balls he hit wasn't as high. Want to know something? His average on balls put in play was one point higher in 2007 than it was in 2005. If he was lucky in 2005, what was he in 2007?

Year - BABIP
2005 - .341
2006 - .286
2007 - .342

League average for BABIP is right at .300. What happens when Francoeur's BABIP drops to his career average of .318? You guessed it, his average drops 25 points, along with everything else if his BB% and XBH% remains the same.

Now to the big thing. A comparison between the current Brave and a former Brave.

What did we all hate about Andruw Jones? Strike outs? Double plays?

Andruw Jones K/AB in his career? .2175. Francoeur's? .2058.
Andruw Jones DP/AB in his career? .0248. Francoeur's? .0219.

Some may like this comparison as they were fans of Andruw, but others will see we're just going down the same road again ... minus the defense (don't give the Gold Glove bullshit either). According to Bill James, Francoeur was 7th among RFs (5th in NL) defensively in 2007 with a +10 rating. Andruw was second among centerfielders with a +24 rating. So, while Francoeur may have a Gold Glove, it surely doesn't mean he deserved it. He deserves a Gold Glove about like David Wright and Derek Jeter ... but, they have them so more power to them.

For reference, the +/- system: A player gets credit (a "plus" number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a "minus" number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play. Each play is looked at individually, and a score is given for each play. Sum up all the plays for each player at his position and you get his total plus/minus for the season. A total plus/minus score near zero means the player is average. A score above zero is above average and a negative score is below average.

Anyway, back to the point. Francoeur equals a less consistent Andruw Jones with weaker on-base skills and a lot less skilled defensively. That may be fine with some of you, but I'm not going to act like I enjoy watching the same crap out of Francoeur that I've been waiting on the day to cut bait with Andruw over.

[HeidiBee21]

Anyway, back to the point. Francoeur equals a less consistent Andruw Jones with weaker on-base skills and a lot less skilled defensively. That may be fine with some of you, but I'm not going to act like I enjoy watching the same crap out of Francoeur that I've been waiting on the day to cut bait with Andruw over.


Thank You!
you are officially my hero :bow:

[vnodnarb]

Good post BGarrett7, I mean McCarroll.

[JCStone7]

Mc very nice breakdown. I'm not trying to get in the ring with you and throw out stats cuz I'd get beatdown. But let me just state what I said in the article.

Basically damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Everyone wanted him to harness his plate discipline and he did and now everyone criticizes something else. It's almost as Francoeur will have ARod Syndrome in Atlanta for his entire career.

[McCarroll21]

Well, as I've told you privately... he's shown strides, now he just has to combine them together to be the complete player. He's still got time to prove he wants to, something that Andruw never proved.

[Hobbes]

It's almost as Francoeur will have ARod Syndrome in Atlanta for his entire career.
Among the truly well-informed fans such as those that come to online forums, possibly. Andruw has pretty much been in a similar boat with the "superfans" throughout his entire tenure for failing to ever reach his true potential.

But the bulk of the casual (and even not-so-casual) Braves fans like Francoeur now and will continue to do so, regardless of what some detailed stat-snooping reveals.

[Scalpel19]

Francouer is a young guy and will enter his third full season this upcoming year. He has all the tools to be one of the best to play the game and certainly the best player we have had in Atlanta. He could also pull an Andruw and we all get fed up with him and can't wait for him to leave.

But he won't be Andruw. Jeff has a great work ethic and has already been working with TP this offseason to improve his hitting even more. Frenchy wants to get better and has worked hard at it even since arriving to ATL.

[JCStone7]

Like most professional athletes they know their strengths and weaknesses. Just like Michael Jordan was criticized for his defense or lack there of, so what did Jordan do? Went to work. He then came back the next season and was a lock-down defender and all it took was blood, sweat, and work ethic. Same could be said for Jeff Francoeur.

Jeff has a great work ethic and has already been working with TP this offseason to improve his hitting even more. Frenchy wants to get better and has worked hard at it even since arriving to ATL.

:D

[brnt247]

Francouer is a young guy and will enter his third full season this upcoming year. He has all the tools to be one of the best to play the game and certainly the best player we have had in Atlanta. He could also pull an Andruw and we all get fed up with him and can't wait for him to leave.

But he won't be Andruw. Jeff has a great work ethic and has already been working with TP this offseason to improve his hitting even more. Frenchy wants to get better and has worked hard at it even since arriving to ATL.

The best player we have had in Atlanta? I beg to differ, I'll throw hitters like Chipper Jones and Fred McGriff along with numerous other hitters that were better than Jeffy.

I hope you guys were going this crazy when Ryan Klesko came up too, because he had a much better start than Jeff has had, and how great did he pan out?

[SamtheBravesFan]

Jeff definitely has a lot of work ahead of him. I hope he can improve next season. That's all I have to say about it. I've been on the "he sucks when those dummies who don't understand think he's great" bandwagon longer than I should have been.

[SamtheBravesFan]

The best player we have had in Atlanta? I beg to differ, I'll throw hitters like Chipper Jones and Fred McGriff along with numerous other hitters that were better than Jeffy.

Hank Aaron trumps them all. :D

[charpotsss]

The best player we have had in Atlanta? I beg to differ, I'll throw hitters like Chipper Jones and Fred McGriff along with numerous other hitters that were better than Jeffy.

I hope you guys were going this crazy when Ryan Klesko came up too, because he had a much better start than Jeff has had, and how great did he pan out?

key word in scalpel's statement was "tools". frenchy has the talent to be one of the best in baseball and the best player in atlanta (with the exception of hank aaron, of course!) if he can put it all together. i'm sure that's been said before of many players, such as klesko, who couldn't put it all together.

[SamtheBravesFan]

Klesko's problem was that he couldn't hit lefties worth a crap. Francoeur doesn't have that problem when it comes to righties.

[JCStone7]

For all of you who think Francoeur should take the first train out of town, all I have to say is :lol:. And the thought that he doesn't impress people on and off the field I suggest you go to Turner Field and see who is the first out of the dugout to sign autographs and the last to go back in after signing autographs. Also to add to that point I suggest you read all those Braves.com links about Braves giving back to the community, and there are 3 names that are constantly there: John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, and Jeff Francoeur.

So put your swords away, sit back and actually take a look at the whole body of work instead of bashing the man for no reason. It seems to be the norm that once someone jumps on a guy everyone else does too. http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jcstone07/Randoms/bandwagon.gif

[SamtheBravesFan]

For all of you who think Francoeur should take the first train out of town, all I have to say is :lol:. And the thought that he doesn't impress people on and off the field I suggest you go to Turner Field and see who is the first out of the dugout to sign autographs and the last to go back in after signing autographs. Also to add to that point I suggest you read all those Braves.com links about Braves giving back to the community, and there are 3 names that are constantly there: John Smoltz, Tim Hudson, and Jeff Francoeur.

So put your swords away, sit back and actually take a look at the whole body of work instead of bashing the man for no reason. It seems to be the norm that once someone jumps on a guy everyone else does too. http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb145/jcstone07/Randoms/bandwagon.gif

None of that is what I'm worried about. That's all a big plus. What I'm worried about is that some people think he's a superstar already when it is clearly not the case.

[JCStone7]

None of that is what I'm worried about. That's all a big plus. What I'm worried about is that some people think he's a superstar already when it is clearly not the case.

Never said he was a superstar. My argument is that just cuz the writers, Braves, SI gave him the unfortunate circumstance as the next best thing everyone expects him to be the Ken Griffey Jr., or something. But he has proven to work on his weaknesses.

[SamtheBravesFan]

But he still needs a little more work. His entire body of work just screams "average", you know? Like I said before, he needs to put it all together. I have confidence in him doing so.

[josephw000]

I dont think anyone said he was a superstar..As far as him having enough tools to ONE DAY be one of the best in Atlanta history I'll concur, who knows if hell slug more homers than Chipper or play longer or win more gold gloves, or batting titles....who knows...like its been said he can pull a Klesko too and drop off the earth...but I really don't see that happening, he's a very good player and he's a fan favorite.

[brnt247]

You guys have to understand, it isn't only that Jeff isn't living up to the hype, it is that there are other players who are doing greater things, specifically Kelly Johnson.

You ask 10 baseball fans who is better Francoeur or KJ, and the majority will say Francoeur. But that just isn't the truth. Francoeur gets all the love from the Braves fans and the league(his bogus GG), but KJ gets nothing and he was one of the best 2B in the majors last year. He had nearly as many HR, a higher OBP, and a higher SLG. The leadoff/8th hitter in the lineup has a higher SLG than our "Power hitting RF?"

This is why I dislike all of the Francoeur love, because if you're going to show someone who is so average in terms of their position this much love, then you should be praising KJ to the Nth degree. Arguably a top 5 2nd Basemen last year... Francoeur was right in the middle of the pack out in RF.

[JCStone7]

For all those Francoeur bashers, I better not see one complement from you guys on Francoeur at all in 2008. You want him out of Atlanta, don't praise him when praise is due.

It's sad that everyone fucks with Andruw then he's out of the picture and you move to the next pawn on the chess board.

[josephw000]

For all those Francoeur bashers, I better not see one complement from you guys on Francoeur at all in 2008. You want him out of Atlanta, don't praise him when praise is due.

It's sad that everyone fucks with Andruw then he's out of the picture and you move to the next pawn on the chess board.


No one will be happy with this team till everyones traded away man....its funner to trade players and be excited about that than to wish them well....we have 2 youthful fixtures in Frenchy and KJ that we can have here for a long time, both great young players that you have to expect will only get better....Frenchy is a welcome addition to MY RF, I just don't see the arguement ever stopping about him....

[JCStone7]

Frenchy is a welcome addition to MY RF, I just don't see the arguement ever stopping about him....

As he is to mine, it's just sad that everyone jumps his shit. Here's an idea. I didn't hear the run Huddy out of town cuz of his 2 sub-par years in Atlanta and now everyone sings his praises cuz of one truly good STATISTICAL year in Atlanta.

[josephw000]

As he is to mine, it's just sad that everyone jumps his shit. Here's an idea. I didn't hear the run Huddy out of town cuz of his 2 sub-par years in Atlanta and now everyone sings his praises cuz of one truly good STATISTICAL year in Atlanta.


O dude, didn't you hear? I've seen a few cats willing to let Frenchy AND KJ go to get Harren over here....I dunno wut some of this crowd is thinking....Maybe pitching is truely the most important thing to most fans....but then why do a lot of people not want a Bargain Glavine here?

[Gibby]

Interesting, I didn't know Andruw was one of the most productive CF in the game last year... I mean his RBI total is better than Rowand's, Granderson's, Sizemore's, Ichiro's, Chris B. Young's.........

RBI means about as much as a National's vs. Pirate's game...
Good point, very good point:rolleyes:, but I don't really compare Andruw to Frenchy, Andruw got his RBIs while hitting like .176 with risp. I'm simply defending Frenchy. He did his job and did it well.

[Hobbes]

For all those Francoeur bashers, I better not see one complement from you guys on Francoeur at all in 2008. You want him out of Atlanta, don't praise him when praise is due.
It is possible to criticize a player without wanting him out of Atlanta. In fact, out of all the posts I've seen that make critical comments toward Francoeur, very few of them have advocated trading him.

[JCStone7]

It is possible to criticize a player without wanting him out of Atlanta. In fact, out of all the posts I've seen that make critical comments toward Francoeur, very few of them have advocated trading him.

But few of them have, that's where my rant was based towards. :)

[cjones1999]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell "Dans", "Nous" and "Fions" mean. lol.

[JCStone7]

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell "Dans", "Nous" and "Fions" mean. lol.

"In Francoeur We Trust"

[cjones1999]

"In Francoeur We Trust"
Ok gotcha.

[brnt247]

To have a higher OPS than our middle infielders...

[josephw000]

To have a higher OPS than our middle infielders...


Dude that's not fair, we got really good middle infielders ;)

[HeidiBee21]

To play the game better. Yes I know. Shocking concept.

[Gibby]

To play the game better. Yes I know. Shocking concept.
I ask again, give me an example of him not playing hard? He has above average numbers. He has a gold glove now. What do you want? Maybe you guys want us to have 9 Arods on the field. I don't think cloning is legal, so looks like you'll have to be disappointed. You may have a personal problem with Francouer, but there is NOTHING wrong with the way he plays baseball!

[HeidiBee21]

I ask again, give me an example of him not playing hard? He has above average numbers. He has a gold glove now. What do you want? Maybe you guys want us to have 9 Arods on the field. I don't think cloning is legal, so looks like you'll have to be disappointed. You may have a personal problem with Francouer, but there is NOTHING wrong with the way he plays baseball!
Opinions are just that. I shared mine. You shared yours. It's all hunky-dory

[Jsh1284]

All I have to say is .. Frenchy is improving. He's pretty darn good right now, and his patience at the plate in 07 was much improved .. which leads me to believe he'll eventually develop into a player who puts up a respectable OBP and OPS to compliment those nice power numbers.

[HeidiBee21]

All I have to say is .. Frenchy is improving. He's pretty darn good right now, and his patience at the plate in 07 was much improved .. which leads me to believe he'll eventually develop into a player who puts up a respectable OBP and OPS to compliment those nice power numbers.

Yes I sadly agree. I don't like him as a person and that clouded my thinking earlier.

Gibby I apologize for being wrong and letting my personal bias out.

[Gibby]

Gibby I apologize for being wrong and letting my personal bias out.
lol. No need to apologize.

[HeidiBee21]

lol. No need to apologize.
Meh. I do anyways. It's what I do when I know I was wrong.

and i'm off to bed. Sweet dreams!

It's my goal to find something nice to say about Frenchy tomorrow

[brnt247]

Yes I sadly agree. I don't like him as a person and that clouded my thinking earlier.

Gibby I apologize for being wrong and letting my personal bias out.

But you were right, regardless of bias... You can love or hate him, but when you objectively look at the statistics he isn't above average at all... in fact he is pretty close to the middle. That's all I'll add to this post, I've expressed my opinions Francoeur a million times in the past year.

[josephw000]

But you were right, regardless of bias... You can love or hate him, but when you objectively look at the statistics he isn't above average at all... in fact he is pretty close to the middle. That's all I'll add to this post, I've expressed my opinions Francoeur a million times in the past year.


You hate Frenchy....but love Chuck James?

[Gibby]

But you were right, regardless of bias... You can love or hate him, but when you objectively look at the statistics he isn't above average at all... in fact he is pretty close to the middle. That's all I'll add to this post, I've expressed my opinions Francoeur a million times in the past year.

Don't run off so fast.
Um... #11 in the NL in RBIs with 105. #21 in the NL in batting avg. (.293) out of what, 150 or so players. Hit .341 with risp. .
Just so you know, the "average" batting average in the NL this year was .266, and the "average" batting avg with risp was .269. I'm not sure what you consider "average", but Jeff Francouer is well above average in my book.

[Hobbes]

Don't run off so fast.
Um... #11 in the NL in RBIs with 105. #21 in the NL in batting avg. (.293) out of what, 150 or so players. Hit .341 with risp. .
Just so you know, the "average" batting average in the NL this year was .266, and the "average" batting avg with risp was .269. I'm not sure what you consider "average", but Jeff Francouer is well above average in my book.
You have to compare him to other NL right fielders, not all other players. Comparing him to the starting right fielders in the NL (actually, the top 20 in PA, since several teams had multiple starters with significant playing time), he ranked thusly:

<table class="MsoTableGrid" style="border: medium none ; border-collapse: collapse;" border="1" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr style=""> <td style="border: 1pt solid windowtext; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> Stat<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: solid solid solid none; border-color: windowtext windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: 1pt 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> Rank (of 20)<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> PA<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 1<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> HR<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 5<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> RBI<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 2<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> Runs<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> T2<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> AVG<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 6<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> OBP<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 17<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> SLG<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 13<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> OPS<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 15<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> BB/K<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 18<o></o>

</td> </tr> <tr style=""> <td style="border-style: none solid solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 59.4pt;" valign="top" width="79"> RC/27<o></o>
</td> <td style="border-style: none solid solid none; border-color: -moz-use-text-color windowtext windowtext -moz-use-text-color; border-width: medium 1pt 1pt medium; padding: 0in 5.4pt; width: 1.25in;" valign="top" width="120"> 16<o></o>

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

At first glance Jeff looks good because of high totals in the counting stats. But he also has far more PA than any other RF in the NL, so he had more chances to accumulate counting stats. And his RBI and R totals are more a function of team and opportunity than an indicator of individual ability.

Once you look into the stats that do a better job of showing his individual performance, it is clear that he was nothing more than an average right fielder this season. And those rankings in OPS and RC/27 would argue that he was in-fact a below average RF offensively.

The fact is that Francoeur benefitted greatly from being on a good offensive team and having a great spot in the order from which to accumulate stats. Sure, he is a valuable player to the team, and perhaps in another year or two he will develop into an above-average player. But lets not make him out to be something that he currently is not.

[brnt247]

Don't run off so fast.
Um... #11 in the NL in RBIs with 105. #21 in the NL in batting avg. (.293) out of what, 150 or so players. Hit .341 with risp. .
Just so you know, the "average" batting average in the NL this year was .266, and the "average" batting avg with risp was .269. I'm not sure what you consider "average", but Jeff Francouer is well above average in my book.

Hobbes couldn't have said it better. Why look at average when you have a more well rounded statistic that determines how frequently a player gets on base.

The only time he was above average was when he was hitting with runners in scoring position. And trust me that is great. Everyone makes it out as if I 'hate' Francoeur, and I absolutely don't... he just isn't as good as a lot of people try to make him out to be.

[JCStone7]

How about we all agree to disagree that Frenchy is solid.

[Hobbes]

How about we all agree to disagree that Frenchy is solid.
Aww, where's the fun in that? :p

[josephw000]

Hobbes couldn't have said it better. Why look at average when you have a more well rounded statistic that determines how frequently a player gets on base.

The only time he was above average was when he was hitting with runners in scoring position. And trust me that is great. Everyone makes it out as if I 'hate' Francoeur, and I absolutely don't... he just isn't as good as a lot of people try to make him out to be.


It's a two way street. You can also contribute the low OPS to the fact that he played a LOT more than other RF and more opportunities to "screw up" and he is young still too....so it's a tough arguement...

[McCarroll21]

It's a two way street. You can also contribute the low OPS to the fact that he played a LOT more than other RF and more opportunities to "screw up" and he is young still too....so it's a tough arguement...
OPS is a rate stat (what you did per plate appearance), so it likely wouldn't be effected by having more plate appearances. More accurate because of a larger sample, maybe, but not greatly effected.

I think there's a misconception about Francoeur. I think those who don't don him with greatness are seen as a Francoeur-basher. I haven't seen anyone truly go out of their way to bash on Francoeur, just be very strong about not making him out to be something he's not; which is great.

Myself, I can't say I don't like him as a player; but at the same time, he's got a lot more value than he should based on his name alone. If it were me, I'd have centered for Peavy around Francoeur last year; and even more so this year. He's got that much name value, but not that much on-field value.

[josephw000]

I just feel hes a good young player who will get better....if we are gonna keep a B Jones to play over there and get rid of Frenchy to get a huge named SP then I just wonder if a guy like Jones would hold up...we really dont have a backup to play over there that's why I dont see a reason to get rid of him, and because he's cheap and young too. We didn;t audition anyone to play over there, and I dont like the idea of having 2 outfielders that don't know what they are doing with a combined 40 games at the ML level.

[HeidiBee21]

I don't want to get rid of him. I just don't like him

[JCStone7]

Brandon Jones doesn't have the skills to play RF, their is no immediate replacement in mind for Francoeur. Think of B. Jones as a poor man's Matt Diaz from the left-side of the plate.

[josephw000]

I don't want to get rid of him. I just don't like him


LOL! That's fine with me, I hate Kobe but if I was a Laker fan I sure wouldnt wanna get rid of him...kinda sorta the same thing?

[JCStone7]

LOL! That's fine with me, I hate Kobe but if I was a Laker fan I sure wouldnt wanna get rid of him...kinda sorta the same thing?

Nah, Kobe is a bonafide proven superstar.

[HeidiBee21]

LOL! That's fine with me, I hate Kobe but if I was a Laker fan I sure wouldnt wanna get rid of him...kinda sorta the same thing?
Not quite. Kobe does a good job...kidding!
Yeah I guess it's kinda like that. It's not that I would mind getting rid of him though, if there were someone who could fill his slot. There quite simply isn't anyone to take over. I don't want him gone when he's an asset. I just...don't like him as a person.

[josephw000]

Brandon Jones doesn't have the skills to play RF, their is no immediate replacement in mind for Francoeur. Think of B. Jones as a poor man's Matt Diaz from the left-side of the plate.

Yah exactlly. Thats what I'm saying, we really don't have anyone else who could play over there anytime soon....So might as well get used to the kid...and I'm fine with havin him personally

[Gibby]

I think there's a misconception about Francoeur. I think those who don't don him with greatness are seen as a Francoeur-basher.


How about we all agree to disagree that Frenchy is solid.
I'm not calling anyone a Francouer basher or anything, and I'm not trying to stir up arguements. I just enjoy a good debate. And this has been a really good debate.
You have to compare him to other NL right fielders, not all other players. Comparing him to the starting right fielders in the NL (actually, the top 20 in PA, since several teams had multiple starters with significant playing time), he ranked thusly:

<TABLE class=MsoTableGrid style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=1><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>Stat<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>Rank (of 20)<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>PA<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>1<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>HR<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>5<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>RBI<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>2<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>Runs<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>T2<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>AVG<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>6<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>OBP<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>17<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>SLG<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>13<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>OPS<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>15<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>BB/K<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>18<O></O>






</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: 1pt solid; WIDTH: 59.4pt; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=79>RC/27<O></O>


</TD><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 5.4pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 5.4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; WIDTH: 1.25in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1pt solid" vAlign=top width=120>16<O></O>






</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


I think it's unfair to compare him to right fielders alone. Either way, my arguement was that he is a better than average baseball player compared to the rest of the NL, not just right fielders. Maybe I misunderstood the arguement, if so, sorry. I agree completely that his name has a lot to do with why he's regarded so highly, but he does produce. Even with a certain someone hitting into a double-play everytime before he came to bat. (I realize this is an exaggeration)

[Hobbes]

I think it's unfair to compare him to right fielders alone. Either way, my arguement was that he is a better than average baseball player compared to the rest of the NL, not just right fielders.
Well if you compare him to the rest of the NL, that will skew the results of where he stands with respect to "average," because he is a starter. You have to compare him to other starters (bench warmers artificially skew the average downward). And comparing him to others at his position is relevant, since middle infielders don't need to produce as much offensively to hold a starting position. Defense is much more important for those positions.

He needs to be compared to other right fielders, or at least other outfielders to properly assess where he stands as opposed to "average". Even then, the defense required of center fielders skews the numbers.

Incidentally, out of all qualified outfielders in the NL, he ranked 17 out of 26 players in OPS. Out of all qualified hitters in the NL, he ranked 50 out of 75 players. The numbers show, he is average at best.

[josephw000]

Well if you compare him to the rest of the NL, that will skew the results of where he stands with respect to "average," because he is a starter. You have to compare him to other starters (bench warmers artificially skew the average downward). And comparing him to others at his position is relevant, since middle infielders don't need to produce as much offensively to hold a starting position. Defense is much more important for those positions.

He needs to be compared to other right fielders, or at least other outfielders to properly assess where he stands as opposed to "average". Even then, the defense required of center fielders skews the numbers.

Incidentally, out of all qualified outfielders in the NL, he ranked 17 out of 26 players in OPS. Out of all qualified hitters in the NL, he ranked 50 out of 75 players. The numbers show, he is average at best.

OK

[chip&smoltz95]

All I have to say is .. Frenchy is improving. He's pretty darn good right now, and his patience at the plate in 07 was much improved .. which leads me to believe he'll eventually develop into a player who puts up a respectable OBP and OPS to compliment those nice power numbers.


ditto! but i do really like KJ too. i am glad he didn't get traded. :D


but i didn't know people were thinking of trading frenchy? i don't like that at all. i mean average at the least, and a cannon in RF. i cannot wait til he throws someone out going to first base!

[mudd03]

Absolute correct about Frenchy, he has the tools to be an MVP. In 2008, he will put them all together combining the best of the 2006 and 2007. But I just hope he doesn't finish his career like the Murph.:please:

[josephw000]

Absolute correct about Frenchy, he has the tools to be an MVP. In 2008, he will put them all together combining the best of the 2006 and 2007. But I just hope he doesn't finish his career like the Murph.:please:

Kids got skill and I hope we resign him longterm. Speaking of which I jsut won an autographed Frenchy Bat on ebay ;)

[MPH]

This thread has really hit every aspect of Francoeur's performance, and it's interesting to go back and read it all - from the beginning of Stoney's article right up to the last post.

One thing that can't be stressed enough is that Francoeur IS a very popular guy. People like him and admire him out of all proportion to his on-field performance, and if his winning personality, 200 watt grin, and favorable reputation make him seem a little (or a lot) better than he really is, that's f'n great!

Players like Francoeur who take an active, visible role in public affairs and humanitarian causes, and whose popularity extends beyong the stadium walls, get all kinds of people talking and thinking about baseball - especially people who are more 'Frenchy fans' than baseball fans.

The guy puts butts in the seats, creates his own brand of buzz, and sets a positive example for youngsters. That's all terrific and important, good for the team, good for us, and good for the game. We are lucky to have Francoeur and others like him in baseball, and I hope he remains a Brave forever.

Go Braves!

[chip&smoltz95]

This thread has really hit every aspect of Francoeur's performance, and it's interesting to go back and read it all - from the beginning of Stoney's article right up to the last post.

One thing that can't be stressed enough is that Francoeur IS a very popular guy. People like him and admire him out of all proportion to his on-field performance, and if his winning personality, 200 watt grin, and favorable reputation make him seem a little (or a lot) better than he really is, that's f'n great!

Players like Francoeur who take an active, visible role in public affairs and humanitarian causes, and whose popularity extends beyong the stadium walls, get all kinds of people talking and thinking about baseball - especially people who are more 'Frenchy fans' than baseball fans.

The guy puts butts in the seats, creates his own brand of buzz, and sets a positive example for youngsters. That's all terrific and important, good for the team, good for us, and good for the game. We are lucky to have Francoeur and others like him in baseball, and I hope he remains a Brave forever.

Go Braves!


that's a great point! glad he chose baseball instead of football!

[KRAZE E E803]

IM not sure what all the fuss is about. I just seem to remember Frenchy had to carry the team for a little while last season with his bat and his arm. No he didn't do it all year but it did happen. When some other guys were struggling he was hitting driving in runs and throwing guys out. I thought he mad tremendous strides at the plate this past year. Yes he has a lot of work to do, but he is young and came right out of high school. IM not sure why he is the one everyone loves to hate. O yeah I do because everyone secretly loves him. HAHAHA<br>

[brnt247]

IM not sure what all the fuss is about. I just seem to remember Frenchy had to carry the team for a little while last season with his bat and his arm. No he didn't do it all year but it did happen. When some other guys were struggling he was hitting driving in runs and throwing guys out. I thought he mad tremendous strides at the plate this past year. Yes he has a lot of work to do, but he is young and came right out of high school. IM not sure why he is the one everyone loves to hate. O yeah I do because everyone secretly loves him. HAHAHA


right...