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McCarroll21
10-22-2007, 07:21 AM
What Does the Future Hold For Scott Thorman?
By: Josh McCarroll (http://www.braves-nation.com/forums/member.php?u=1) | Braves-Nation.com

Last winter, when the Braves were desperately trying to bolster their bullpen, they felt comfortable trading Adam LaRoche in exchange for, the then Pirates closer, Mike Gonzalez. They were able to pull the trigger on such a trade because the front office was comfortable moving into the Scott Thorman era at first base.

In 2006, Thorman had made it clear that he had nothing left to prove in the minor leagues by batting .298/.360/.508 over 81 games at Triple-A Richmond. His .868 OPS made the International League's League OPS of .716 look rather miniscule. By the middle of the season, Thorman had proven that his offensive production was ready for the next level. He breezed through each level of the minor leagues, finishing his career as a .276/.340/.452 hitter. The only thing that had proven to stop the production of Scott Thorman was an injury that caused him to miss all of the 2001 season.

When looking over the minor league numbers, Scott Thorman had proven himself every much as ready as Adam LaRoche was at the time of LaRoche's rookie season. LaRoche, a .287/.353/.447 minor league hitter, had recently turned in a second half of 2006 that many felt he would not be capable of matching. When the offers for LaRoche started rolling in, the Braves had to jump at the chance of bolstering their bullpen when they had a very comparable hitter primed to step in at first base.

The Braves made the trade of LaRoche feeling confident that a platoon of Scott Thorman and Craig Wilson would give them the production they needed at first base. I'm not sure of many, who at the time could have been so sure that it wouldn't.

After the first base platoon, and any attempts at salvaging success out of the position fell flat on their face, the Braves pulled off a deadline deal to acquire Mark Teixeira from the Texas Rangers. Teixeira's arrival brought immediate dividends to the Braves first base production, but it had an adverse effect on Scott Thorman.

After the trade, Thorman appeared in just 34 games for the Braves, with his only start coming on the final day of the season. With no options remaining, the Braves couldn't send him to the minor leagues, so he basically became a waste of a roster spot with no logical solution in sight.

Next year will present Thorman with the same situation. If he is still with the Braves, he will be relegated to the bench without much playing time in sight and no way to return to the minor leagues. With Teixeira set to be the team's first baseman in 2008, Thorman's only hope for playing time would be sharing left field with Matt Diaz and coming off the bench as a pinch hitter. At this time, if the Braves are going to go with another platoon in left field, it will likely be with Brandon Jones sharing time with Diaz, not Thorman. Thorman isn't expected to get many opportunities to spot start at first base as Teixeira isn't known to require many off days.

I think that the best move for both parties would be to look into trading Scott Thorman to a team that could give him the proper playing time. Thorman is a talented player, but currently has no place to play with the Braves. Having no remaining options and not adapt in the art of pinch hitting, Thorman's place on the roster would essentially result in a wasted spot.

When you think that in the 55 games the Braves played in August and September, Thorman started just one game and totaled just 33 at bats, it's clear that playing time is not in his future. His next chance to have an every day job in Atlanta will be 2009, but even that is not a guarantee as the Braves will surely try to re-sign Teixeira to a long-term deal.

Thorman's career stats show that every time he is given the chance to repeat a level, his statistical line will improve dramatically. To me, this means that the book on Thorman's career hasn't come to an abrupt end, he just needs an opportunity to show what he can do. He needs a place that he could play close to every day and the confidence to know that he will not be benched if he has a bad couple of games.

The problem with this is that to trade Thorman, the Braves have to realize that they will not get the same value in return that they may have gotten in previous off-seasons. Teams know that the Braves have Teixeira and that Thorman is out of options. This piece of information gives opposing teams more power in negotiations.

The best bet: Package Thorman in a trade to a team with a deficiency at first base that doesn't have much chance for the playoffs. Teams like Rangers, Marlins, Royals, Giants, Blue Jays and Mariners come to mind. Seeing the Royals on any list of teams that could be in the running for Thorman immediately causes the wheels to turn in one's head. Knowing the history of Dayton Moore and his attachment to Braves prospects, could Thorman be included in a deal to fetch us a center fielder? David DeJesus would be a good fit for the Braves in 2008 (http://www.braves-nation.com/forums/showthread.php?p=140987#post140987). The Mariners? Remember Wladimir Balentien? (http://www.braves-nation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7162) The Giants have a bevy of young pitching that they could look at trading, as well.

Scott Thorman is one of my favorite players on the Braves team. He plays the game the way it is meant to be played; always hustling, always giving his team everything he has left in the tank. The problem is that without a place to play, it will only hinder his development as a player and will eventually close the book on his career. To allow Thorman to have chance to have a career in the major leagues and establish himself as a major leaguer, the Braves have to trade him.

vnodnarb
10-22-2007, 11:16 AM
This seems like the only logical solution, unfortunately his trade value is about as close to zero as possible. He struggled mightily this year and must stay on the ML roster for that team that takes him. As far as his future performance goes, I really don't think he can succeed with that swing of his. It just has too many holes, he's looks like a lumberjack up there. He reminds me of Casey at the Bat. I'm not trying to be mean either, I like Thor a lot and his hustle is always appreciated, but he needs to cut down on his natural swing to be a good hitter at this level in my opinion.

McCarroll21
10-22-2007, 11:21 AM
The only thing that points out in my mind that translates to stats is that he's not taking as many walks as he did in the minor leagues. Perhaps that's due to scouting, or perhaps Thorman is trying to do too much. Whatever it is, he's still got a lot of room to improve and that won't happen in Atlanta.

Hopefully Dayton still thinks of him in the same way he thought of Davies. Maybe Bavasi can do us a favor this off-season, as well.

Who knows, but something has to give.

MSU Bulldog
10-22-2007, 11:58 AM
I'm with you in thinking that he will be part of a package to fill a greater need.

It would be nice if all that hustle actually translated into about 50 more points on the BA.

HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN
10-22-2007, 12:05 PM
I don't see it happening, but if Lowell leaves Boston, but in that ball park Thorman could be a nice piece at 1B for Boston if they wanted Youkillis to shift to 3B...

JCStone7
10-22-2007, 12:06 PM
I'd love to get Balentin I just don't think Bavasi wants to get worked over again by the Braves' front office.

HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN
10-22-2007, 12:13 PM
Well that was JS...maybe he'll let Wren work him over once :)

JayDonnelly10
10-22-2007, 12:16 PM
I don't see it happening, but if Lowell leaves Boston, but in that ball park Thorman could be a nice piece at 1B for Boston if they wanted Youkillis to shift to 3B...

Package him in a deal for Coco? Not sure the Sox would make that deal since Youk, has had only one error at first base since somehting like June/July of last year....I dont think Youk is leaving 1B

HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN
10-22-2007, 12:55 PM
There has been talk for a while now of Youk going back to 3B, since 1B would be easier to fill than 3B...

charpotsss
10-22-2007, 12:58 PM
There has been talk for a while now of Youk going back to 3B, since 1B would be easier to fill than 3B...

If that's the case, makes sense to take his great defense and put it at 3rd. He may rack up a couple more errors over there, but would probably be better or just as good as anyone else they could find to replace Lowell.

HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN
10-22-2007, 01:11 PM
I think Boston ends up keeping Lowell on a 3 yr deal, but as long Youkillis plays solid defense at 3B then they won't have to worry about his defense being missed at 1B as long as they don't get some butcher at 1st...Hell they might let Lowell go and keep Youk at 1B, but don't be shocked if Youk is moved back to 3rd if Lowell is gone...

milbraves
10-22-2007, 01:55 PM
If the Braves can't let thorman develop like he needs to because they're trying to compete, not rebuild, i can't see how thor could possibly be a good fit in Boston. Remember Willy Mo Pena? I seriously think that DC would be a good fit for Scotty, because that's a developing team that can afford to get behind a guy that isn't living up to his potential. With a crap team like DC, Tampa Bay, or KC, he can get the at bats he needs to find his form, but DC looks like the best fit for Thorman, as he can find playing time in left field and backing up Dmitri Young, and if he proves a suitable replacement for Young at first base, it would enable the Nats to deal Dmitri mid-season for younger talent; the key to building a competitive franchise.

McCarroll21
10-22-2007, 02:12 PM
But that brings up the question as to what other team would have to be involved in a trade between the Nationals and the Braves. It would take a three-way deal to get Thorman to Washington. I'm not sure if the Braves would pull off a deal inside the division.

MSU Bulldog
10-22-2007, 03:15 PM
We need to seriously hope Thorman has a really good Mexican/Pacific League season to enhance his value somewhat.

McCarroll21
10-22-2007, 03:18 PM
We need to seriously hope Thorman has a really good Mexican/Pacific League season to enhance his value somewhat.
And as of now, he's not doing that.

MSU Bulldog
10-22-2007, 03:20 PM
Then maybe his future holds an unemployment check.

vnodnarb
10-22-2007, 06:54 PM
But that brings up the question as to what other team would have to be involved in a trade between the Nationals and the Braves. It would take a three-way deal to get Thorman to Washington. I'm not sure if the Braves would pull off a deal inside the division.

The Nats don't really count though.

JayDonnelly10
10-22-2007, 07:09 PM
The Nats don't really count though.

Seriously?

What did we go something like 11-7 versus them this season...ohh yeah we really beat up on them!

vnodnarb
10-22-2007, 07:39 PM
Seriously?

What did we go something like 11-7 versus them this season...ohh yeah we really beat up on them!

Eh, I see no problem trading Thorman to the Nationals, it's not like he is helping them win the division anytime soon. Isn't the point of not trading within your division to avoid having a former player come back to hurt you.

cjones1999
10-22-2007, 07:44 PM
I just would like to keep Thor in case Tex gets hurt. Or to PH.

milbraves
10-22-2007, 08:37 PM
We could trade him to the A's, they can hold on to him for two days and send him to the Nats! Brilliant!

JayDonnelly10
10-22-2007, 09:29 PM
We could trade him to the A's, they can hold on to him for two days and send him to the Nats! Brilliant!

What did we ever get in return for that trade?

McCarroll21
10-22-2007, 09:31 PM
What did we ever get in return for that trade?
Probably about $500K. I don't think the terms were ever disclosed but I'm sure it was cash or we would have gotten a player by now.

JayDonnelly10
10-22-2007, 10:55 PM
Probably about $500K. I don't think the terms were ever disclosed but I'm sure it was cash or we would have gotten a player by now.

I tried looking it up but nothing. That sounds about right I guess.

milbraves
10-23-2007, 12:09 AM
What did we ever get in return for that trade?

Roster Space!:)

McCarroll21
10-23-2007, 12:21 AM
Basically... ridding ourselves of a player without options. Enter Scott Thorman's name...

kdp
10-23-2007, 01:43 AM
What did we ever get in return for that trade?Billy Beane's foot up our ass.

milbraves
10-23-2007, 02:36 PM
Billy Beane's foot up our ass.

Whatever. Beano did us a favor taking Langerhans off our roster and off our hands. Occasionally, GMs make deals as a way to keep their good trading standing with another GM. Example: Chicago(AL) pulled a few good prospects away from Philly in the Freddy Garcia trade, and Garcia turned out to be damaged goods, making only one start in the season. Kenny Williams realized this could affect future dealings with the Phils, and so he essentially gave them Tad Iguchi at the deadline for a nobody. The WSox were well out of contention by that point, and with Utley injured, the Phils had a strong need for an infielder. The Braves have recently been good trading partners with the A's, and as such giving Langerhans to Oakland was a great move, at least as far as keeping a good trade standing with a team that has consistently been one of the best at developing ace pitchers over the last decade, and has been known to shop them off for younger talent, something the Braves always seem to have in abundance.

BGarrett7
10-23-2007, 02:46 PM
Billy Beane's foot up our ass.By acquiring a player he didn't even want, then turning him around for a player who would play six games for the club before being injured for the rest of the season.

Yeah, that Billy Beane, he really pulled the wool over our eyes...

JayDonnelly10
10-23-2007, 04:28 PM
Whatever. Beano did us a favor taking Langerhans off our roster and off our hands. Occasionally, GMs make deals as a way to keep their good trading standing with another GM. Example: Chicago(AL) pulled a few good prospects away from Philly in the Freddy Garcia trade, and Garcia turned out to be damaged goods, making only one start in the season. Kenny Williams realized this could affect future dealings with the Phils, and so he essentially gave them Tad Iguchi at the deadline for a nobody. The WSox were well out of contention by that point, and with Utley injured, the Phils had a strong need for an infielder. The Braves have recently been good trading partners with the A's, and as such giving Langerhans to Oakland was a great move, at least as far as keeping a good trade standing with a team that has consistently been one of the best at developing ace pitchers over the last decade, and has been known to shop them off for younger talent, something the Braves always seem to have in abundance.

So can we now have Dan Haren? Since we made the A's feel better by giving them Langerhans?

Please!

milbraves
10-23-2007, 04:55 PM
So can we now have Dan Haren? Since we made the A's feel better by giving them Langerhans?
Please!

Maybe not Haren. It's possible, but Blanton may be more likely. But whatever happens, it won't be just because we gave them Langerhans, but it does help to keep the lines of communication open. If Oakland would give up an ace, it would cost us a few prospects, with star potential, maybe Escobar/Lillibridge, one of our many OF prospects, and probably pitching as well.
Sorry, I'm getting way off topic. Maybe Thorman could be a deal sweetener in accquiring one of the two, but i don't know how his lack of options affects his shopability.

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