Schuerholz to be Team President; Wren in as new GM

[DwightSchrute]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/7322496

[JCStone7]

I thought he was signed through 2008? If this happens this comes as a major surprise and it sucks that Dayton Moore just left too.

[SCchief]

What the hell, is he going somewhere else???, Talk about the end of several era's!!!!

[CB1]

It's true. He's retiring.

He may be sick, this doesn't seem right. Frank Wren is replacing him.

I'm crying.

[Martin Kove]

It's true. He's retiring.

He may be sick, this doesn't seem right. Frank Wren is replacing him.

I'm crying.

No Sir I don't like it

[SCchief]

Man I hope it's something else, like A-rod is coming to the braves to play ss, or that Liberty Media is going to up its payroll. He's got the perfect job

[SCchief]

Are you sure it's about him and not about Bobby, and why Wren?

[jonsmoltz]

W.T.F.
Nuff said.

[C-Dawg]

Are you sure it's about him and not about Bobby, and why Wren?

Well, JS has been grooming Wren for a while now...makes sense.

[Tex4Prez]

if this is true it will truely be a sad day in braves history. this comes very shocking to me and probably to everyone else. :confused:

[JCStone7]

Well, JS has been grooming Wren for a while now...makes sense.

He was grooming Dayton Moore forever. But I hope Frank does a good job

[brave_in_nyc]

This is certainly a shocker to me. There must be more to this than simply retirement.

[Rafiki]

The timing is a little surprising and the fact that there wasn't some "leakage" ahead of time is a little surprising in this day and age, but it's not really that shocking. There have been indications for several years that the end was near. It's probably good that Bobby is staying for at least one more year, for continuity purposes.

[vnodnarb]

This blows, but most people thought he was only going to be here another year anyway. Frank Wren, go sign Glavine, that's your best chance to gain some of the overwhelming support JS had from fans.

[JCStone7]

This blows, but most people thought he was only going to be here another year anyway. Frank Wren, go sign Glavine, that's your best chance to gain some of the overwhelming support JS had from fans.

Good call

[McCarroll21]

I don't even know what to say. I certainly hope Jocketty is not in our future.

[dogmanx23]

my heart just droped i loved JS and im at work reading this game gettin teary eyed i was expecting this next season but not this offseason. Bobby probably retires next season to that will also be a sad day end of an era and the start of a new one. Hopefully nothing much changes.

[Preacher]

I brought this up when we traded for Teixeria; and I'll bring it up again now.

Does anyone think he knew this might be coming and was trying to win one before he left? I don't think it's as far fetched as some of you probably will.

[goheels]

According to ajc.com, He will be promoted to team president. So he isn't leaving the Braves, just changing offices.
http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/10/11/schuerholz_1012.html
(http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/10/11/schuerholz_1012.html)

[JCStone7]

That still sucks Dayton left 1 year to early

[McCarroll21]

Well, that's much better but still not the same. At least he won't be completely out of the way and will still have some pull/say/etc.

I don't know all the facts, and haven't read any articles yet, but I'll be sure to do it when I get back in.

[BravesfaninNC]

Thank you JS for you what you have done.For taking the braves from being one of the worst team in baseball 16years ago.To make us today one of the best team in the NL and maybe in baseball.JS you were and will always be the Best GM in baseball just like Bobby is The best manager in baseball

[C-Dawg]

That still sucks Dayton left 1 year to early

Seriously...what is the obsession with DM? I'm assuming it's because he was seen as the next JS, but i think Wren can be that now....he's been here long enough.

[JCStone7]

Seriously...what is the obsession with DM? I'm assuming it's because he was seen as the next JS, but i think Wren can be that now....he's been here long enough.

I just always assumed Dayton would be the heir to the throne. Dayton is a JS carbon copy. Wren doesn't really have the best track record.

[charpotsss]

someone texted me about this in class, and my gut reaction, while sitting in the front row of a lecture was, "oh my god NO!" completely out loud. i felt like i'd just found out someone died.

i am beyond shocked and heartbroken. i feel like there's definitely more to this story, some sort of health issue. this seems completely out of the blue.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Damn, this sucks...I'd almost rather get a new manager and have Bobby be the GM than Frank Wren...man why did Moore have to leave when he did....

[Martin Kove]

If he is going to be team Pres. I don't mind at all. good move. I to don't understand the man crush you all have on DM. Remember he did trade FOR Kyle Davies.

[JCStone7]

I thought he was signed through 2008? If this happens this comes as a major surprise and it sucks that Dayton Moore just left too.

That still sucks Dayton left 1 year to early

Seriously...what is the obsession with DM? I'm assuming it's because he was seen as the next JS, but i think Wren can be that now....he's been here long enough.

Damn, this sucks...I'd almost rather get a new manager and have Bobby be the GM than Frank Wren...man why did Moore have to leave when he did....

See C-Dawg I'm not the only one

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

People like to forget who truly built the dynasty Stone...Sure JS is a great GM and it kills me to see him leave and I'm not taking anything from him because he made alot of moves that helped to keep us at the top of the NL, but Bobby Built the foundation to the Dynasty that JS just put a few final touches on...

[CB1]

my heart just droped i loved JS and im at work reading this game gettin teary eyed i was expecting this next season but not this offseason. Bobby probably retires next season to that will also be a sad day end of an era and the start of a new one. Hopefully nothing much changes.
Funny, that's post 1992 for you...

[JCStone7]

People like to forget who truly built the dynasty Stone...Sure JS is a great GM and it kills me to see him leave and I'm not taking anything from him because he made alot of moves that helped to keep us at the top of the NL, but Bobby Built the foundation to the Dynasty that JS just put a few final touches on...

Very true HBF. Dayton had probably one of the biggest hands in the development of our young players like McCann, Francoeur, Kage. Dayton was also the one who called Adam Wainwright to tell him of the Drew trade because he knew Adam and his family on a personal level like he does most of the young kids. That's why he brought Tony Pena Jr and Kyle Davies to KC and probably wants more.

[McCarroll21]

If he is going to be team Pres. I don't mind at all. good move. I to don't understand the man crush you all have on DM. Remember he did trade FOR Kyle Davies.
And what did he give up? An overpriced reliever who gave the Braves 3.1 lousy innings before missing a month of action.

He also got Brian Bannister for Ambriox Burgos, Ryan Shealy for Jeremy Affeldt, and need I remind you that he did not re-sign Mark Redman.

He's made some good moves, he is trying to add to the Royals young pitching and he gave up nothing they would factor into next year for him.

You also can't forget that he's the man that's been in charge of the farm system to produce the guys that we have either gotten to the big leagues or traded for big league talent.

[Martin Kove]

I would take the overpriced reliever to get rid of Davies and his 90mph over the heart of the plate fastball

Remember we are the Braves we don't rebuild we reload. everone freaked out when Stan Kasten,
Greg Maddux, Fred Mcgriff, Javy Lopez, Rico Brogna and others left.


okay maybe not so much Rico Brogna.

[McCarroll21]

I would take the overpriced reliever to get rid of Davies and his 90mph over the heart of the plate fastball
But what does that overpriced reliever give the Royals? They weren't going to bring him back. They have Soria, who they wanted to close. Davies at least gave them a guy they could hope built some young, starting pitching depth. Better than having Dotel around closing games, and earning more money with each game he finished.

But enough about that. Why is everyone in love with Dayton Moore? Because he, and Roy Clark, are the men responsible for developing all the young talent that has gotten to Atlanta, as well as developing those who were traded to get different players.

[Martin Kove]

Mac I know I hit a sore spot talking about your girlfriend but I was just using Davies as an example. My point is everything is going to be okay everyone stay calm.

[JCStone7]

I would take the overpriced reliever to get rid of Davies and his 90mph over the heart of the plate fastball

Remember we are the Braves we don't rebuild we reload. everone freaked out when Stan Kasten,
Greg Maddux, Fred Mcgriff, Javy Lopez, Rico Brogna and others left.


okay maybe not so much Rico Brogna.

Only fans who didn't pay to much attention and didn't read between the lines freaked out. We actually intended to rebuild it just so happened we were fortunate enough to play in a weak division so it looks like we reloaded.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Very true HBF. Dayton had probably one of the biggest hands in the development of our young players like McCann, Francoeur, Kage. Dayton was also the one who called Adam Wainwright to tell him of the Drew trade because he knew Adam and his family on a personal level like he does most of the young kids. That's why he brought Tony Pena Jr and Kyle Davies to KC and probably wants more.

most def

[McCarroll21]

Mac I know I hit a sore spot talking about your girlfriend but I was just using Davies as an example. My point is everything is going to be okay everyone stay calm.
No one is saying it won't be okay, but to say that we shouldn't want Dayton Moore is foolish. If he weren't seen as a better option to fill the seat when JS left it, it would have been Frank Wren who was hired away, not Dayton. Nice try at a cheapshot, by the way. If you knew a damn thing about the whole Davies situation, you'd know that I told everyone on here that he would be traded to the Royals for Octavio Dotel about two weeks before it happened.

[Martin Kove]

easy big fella.
I am glad to hear that JS is staying on as team pres and not going to fill that open GM spot in STL.

[C-Dawg]

and need I remind you that he did not re-sign Mark Redman.

But he paid a king's ransom for Gil Meche. Six in one; half dozen in the other.

[JCStone7]

But he paid a king's ransom for Gil Meche. Six in one; half dozen in the other.

And actually has been praised by baseball writers around the country for it. Meche has been solid for KC this year

[Vuchato]

I'm kinda excited about this, I'm not expecting him to be as good as JS, but I expect some moves to be made, this could be exciting, and it'd be nice to see this team take a direction.

[BGarrett7]

It's not the end of the world. Good to shake things up.

[brnt247]

If he is going to be team Pres. I don't mind at all. good move. I to don't understand the man crush you all have on DM. Remember he did trade FOR Kyle Davies.

Yeh what a dumb decision by him... trading an injury prone closer who he only had locked up for this year for a struggling pitcher with ace potential.

Seriously, probably the most under-rated trade this year. DM did a great job in that trade. Got what he wanted and got rid of something that he wouldn't have and wouldn't help him get into contention.

[Martin Kove]

And actually has been praised by baseball writers around the country for it. Meche has been solid for KC this year

why don't we change the name of this place to Royals-nation?

[McCarroll21]

why don't we change the name of this place to Royals-nation?
I never knew it was wrong to respect people outside of the organization, especially those that had been with the Braves organization for so long.

[JCStone7]

why don't we change the name of this place to Royals-nation?

What's wrong with giving credit where credit is due? Schuerholz came from KC and KC hasn't been the same since and then they brought in JS's protege to rebuild them the right way. It's just an endless circle.

[brnt247]

Just because we are Braves fans doesn't mean we have to only follow the Braves. The Royals are going to be one of the better franchises in baseball in a few years and it's mostly going to be because of the great pitching they have that DM acquired. Meche, Bannister, Davies, and Grienke are a great solid base for a rotation. Meche is already solid and the other 3 have ace potential.

[romebravesfan13]

I have a stupid question.....what exactly does a team president do?

[Martin Kove]

if you are not with us you are against us

[BGarrett7]

if you are not with us you are against usThat could be one of the stupidest damn comments I've ever seen posted here.

Some of us are actually fans of, get this, baseball -- not just the Atlanta Braves.

[Preacher]

Yeh what a dumb decision by him... trading an injury prone closer who he only had locked up for this year for a struggling pitcher with ace potential.


Not to disagree with your overall point; but to say Kyle Davies has "ace potential" is to say Neville Chamberlain had Prime Minister potential.

He's losing nothing, but Davies will never be an ace.

[McCarroll21]

Davies will never be an ace.Even I'll agree with that.

Dayton had better offers for Dotel at the deadline, that's for sure, but he knows better than anyone that it's easier to groom a position player prospect than a pitching prospect. So, in his attempt to rebuild his team, he went and got the pitcher to help give them depth and some options to choose from.

I will still contend that when Davies is able to take his lumps and learn without being pressured to win, he'll be a much better pitcher than many here give him credit for.

[Martin Kove]

That could be one of the stupidest damn comments I've ever seen posted here.

Some of us are actually fans of, get this, baseball -- not just the Atlanta Braves.

I have seen tons of stupider comments here, check the Scott Kazmir thread that is a good example.

My original point has been missed altogether, the love for DM around here is borderline obsessive. It is just like loving the backup quarterback. JS will still be calling the shots, it is all good.
As for the you are either with us or against us comment, that came from KB's boy W.

[MPH]

JS has been great, but he's not going anywhere. As team president, he will still be involved in everything.

Wren has been around the Braves long enough now to be familiar with the system. Also he's been in baseball for a long time, so he's a qualified replacement. He was probably pencilled in as the successor to JS before Moore left the team, and that may have contributed to his move to KC.

[JayDonnelly10]

Shocking news....but good to know JS will still be on board and a big part of all decisions......

[Rafiki]

JS has been great, but he's not going anywhere. As team president, he will still be involved in everything.

Wren has been around the Braves long enough now to be familiar with the system. Also he's been in baseball for a long time, so he's a qualified replacement. He was probably pencilled in as the successor to JS before Moore left the team, and that may have contributed to his move to KC.

I'm guessing that is true. The way JS plans things, he and/or McQuirk probably let Moore know that he wouldn't be first in line so that Moore wouldn't pass up any good offers that came his way.

[PeytonAllen]

Davies was actually worse in KC than he was in Atlanta. Dayton took a flier on a kid he knew well, but if Davies ever becomes not just an Ace, but a quality ML starter I'll be shocked. He's 24, time is on his side, but he's shown nothing in his career to believe Moore stole one from Atlanta. Hell, let him have Thorman and James too.

It'd be interesting to see a breakdown of the moves Cox and JS did separately. Am I mistaken to say Cox was GM when we drafted Glavine and traded for Smoltz?

JS is one of the greats of all time. Losing he and Bobby within the next 2 years probably will be sad to see. What a great run. The Braves literally had two of the best baseball minds working together.

Replacing either one will be next to impossible, but the Braves have a man who's worked alongside JS for years, and will still have his brain to pick. I'm sure Wren has turned down offers in the past since being the assistant GM.

Well, let's hope Wren fixes our starting rotation!

[cjones1999]

YES!!! My big break has finally come!!!:D

[milbraves]

I have a stupid question.....what exactly does a team president do?

He's essentially the guy that the GM answers to.

It's a real shame JS won't be back for one last hurrah as GM, but he really isn't going anywhere. He'll be around for the next few years while Wren learns the ropes. Schuerholz has accomplished the unthinkable in the title streak, and won a series. He really hasn't got anything left to prove. He's already one of the best, if not the best, GM in baseball history. Being a GM is a very tough job, and it seems he just doesn't want to do it anymore. I think it's great that he's stepping up into the president role, as he can oversee Wren's development. At least he's not just flat out retiring.

[TheMatrix31]

Thank you for everything, John.

[jschafer5]

Yea, thanks john, and im glad he's still with the braves...when i first saw this topic i was thinking "omfg"...

[charpotsss]

very thrilled to learn schuerholz will remain as team president. i was scared he was just leaving the organization entirely.

best wishes to frank wren as he takes on this role. he has some mighty large shoes to fill!

[gobravez]

Doesn't the GM answer to the President? So JS will get the final say in the signings and trades, besides the owners.

[gobravez]

YES!!! My big break has finally come!!!:D

grow up. You are the same age as me, yet I act 10 years older than you

[charpotsss]

Doesn't the GM answer to the President? So JS will get the final say in the signings and trades, besides the owners.

pretty sure. i keep reading this is a promotion and how he's in charge of both the baseball and business sides. don't know if that will mean wren will have to run ever single trade by him, but i imagine if JS was definitely against a trade then it probably wouldn't happen.

[Nic]

It's going to be interesting to see what's in store for Atlanta over the next few years with all these changes.

[Scalpel19]

In the next month to two months Frank Wren and JS are going to be pulling off a heck of a deal. JS may not be the GM, but our trades this offseason will certainly have his touch as everyone will see soon

[PhantomsCV]

"Replacing John Schuerholz as a general manager is like replacing Babe Ruth in the 3 hole of the Yankees line-up."

-Jason Stark, ESPN (who also called him the greatest GM in modern history)

[gobravez]

Im not directly posting this insider article so I dont know if im really breaking the rules, so if i am then i understand if you delete this mccarroll.

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-braves&tid=104499

[jschafer5]

until the streak finally ended with a third-place finish in 2005

from the article...just felt like pointing that out.

[MPH]

The timing of this GM change is surprising to me. I wonder - just as a matter of pure conjecture - whether the Braves had to promote Wren a year or two ahead of schedule because he was being courted by another team.

[KB21]

The timing of this GM change is surprising to me. I wonder - just as a matter of pure conjecture - whether the Braves had to promote Wren a year or two ahead of schedule because he was being courted by another team.

I don't know. This was apparently something they had been discussing for around 6 months now.

I think Frank Wren will do fine. You cannot discount what he has probably learned from John over the past 8 years. Also, he has experience being in strong scouting systems that have produced very strong minor league systems, from his days with the Expos in the late 80s to his days with the Marlins. I don't really think you can base anything off his one year in Baltimore, where apparently he wanted to rebuild and focus on the farm system and Peter Angelos wanted to win now.

I think a more interesting move down the road is going to be who they hire to succeed Bobby Cox. It's looking like both Brian Snitker and Terry Pendelton are the two names Dayton Moore is looking at for the manager's job in Kansas City. My guess is, Dayton is going to hire Brian Snitker, and Snitker is going to take Kent Willis with him as his pitching coach. And that's going to piss me off, because we will end up losing an excellent pitching coach because we wanted to keep the worthless Roger McDowell on staff. :mad:

[KB 34]

I refuse to label McDowell as being bad until he gets a chance to work with a pitching staff that has the ability to be good. So far he's been handed two bad pitching staffs that were pretty bad. You can't turn feces into gold just like you can't turn Redman into Smoltz.

[KB21]

I refuse to label McDowell as being bad until he gets a chance to work with a pitching staff that has the ability to be good. So far he's been handed two bad pitching staffs that were pretty bad. You can't turn feces into gold just like you can't turn Redman into Smoltz.

I refuse to label him good until he shows me that he can develop a young pitcher and get the most out of what he is given. His track record with young pitchers is terrible right now. Supposedly, Leo was replaced because he couldn't work with young pitchers. Well, they replaced him with someone that is far worse in that department. Roger has never developed a quality young starter in his career, and it isn't because he didn't have the talent. Edwin Jackson, Kyle Davies, and Chuck James were all top 100 prospects in baseball as pitchers, and all three regressed under Roger's coaching.

[Rafiki]

It's the battle of the KBs. Cox will retire before long. If McDowell is still with the team at that time, and has yet to prove himself, the new manager will almost certainly bring in his own pitching coach.

[KB21]

It's the battle of the KBs. Cox will retire before long. If McDowell is still with the team at that time, and has yet to prove himself, the new manager will almost certainly bring in his own pitching coach.

Hopefully, when the new manager is hired, he will be promoted from within. This makes it more important to be able to keep some of the great minor league pitching coaches we have in the system. We need someone that can be a strong candidate to replace Roger when he continues his terrible coaching. Kent Willis is the strongest candidate at this point, and he should have gotten the job when they foolishly hired Roger. However, we may end up losing him if Snitker gets the Kansas City job.

That would leave the Braves with Derek Botehlo at Mississippi, Doug Henry at Rome, and Jim Czajkowski at Danville as the prime internal options (Guy Hansen and Bruce Dal Canton don't appear to want to coach in the majors).

My hope is that Dayton Moore goes in another direction and we get to keep Kent Willis in the fold. If not, then the Braves will end up regretting not firing Roger and putting Kent in that spot now.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

Anyone find it out that the 3 longest tenured GM's all ended there tenures in the same offseason in some capacity?

[McCarroll21]

I refuse to label him good until he shows me that he can develop a young pitcher and get the most out of what he is given. His track record with young pitchers is terrible right now.It's not Roger's job on the major league level to develop players. It's the job of the minor league systems to develop young players.

Roger can tell and teach everything he wants, but he can't go out and throw the ball for them.

Leo was god-like because he had the best pitchers in the game pitching for him. I could have been a Hall of Famer if I had Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine heading my staff for years on end. How much "coaching" do you think he actually had to do with that group?

Talk about the reclamation projects all you want, but if you were a pitcher trying to make your comeback, wouldn't you have a little extra incentive to impress guys like Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine?

I just can't call Roger a bad coach until he has something to work with. In his first year, Ken Ray was the best we had in the bullpen ... KEN RAY! That's not me calling him a good coach, however.

After given the pieces needed, he turned the bullpen around and they were pretty damn good this past year.

Now after Smoltz and Hudson, he had nothing to work with in the rotation. After he gets the pieces he needs for the rotation this winter, I would expect to see some great improvement in the staff.

If Roger supposed to go live with Chuck during the off-season and say, "now Chuck, instead of driving your work truck to install that window, why don't you run there to build up your endurance."

[JCStone7]

THE BEST
1. Fred McGriff: On July 18, 1993, Schuerholz brought the first baseman to the Braves in a trade with San Diego for minor leaguers Donnie Elliot, Vincent Moore and Melvin Nieves. The Braves go on to win the NL West by one game as McGriff had 19 homers and 55 RBIs in 68 games. McGriff was a three-time All-Star with the Braves.
2. Greg Maddux: Prior to the 1993 season, Schuerholz signed the free-agent pitcher coming off his first Cy Young season. Maddux joined John Smoltz and Tom Glavine to make up one of the best staffs ever assembled. He won the Cy Young award the next three seasons.
3. Terry Pendleton, Sid Bream, Rafael Belliard: All three were signed as a free agents in December 1990 and became key parts of the Braves as the went from worst to first. Pendleton went on the win the NL MVP in 1991 as the Braves started run of 14 straight division titles. We all remember what Bream did.
4. Alejandro Pena: The reliever was acquired on Aug. 29, 1991. It was Pena who closed out games down the stretch as the Braves won the division by one game.
5. Mike Bielecki, Damon Berryhill: The two were acquired in a trade with the Chicago Cubs on Sept. 29, 1991. It's the kind of move that came to symbolize Schuerholz. While it seemed like a minor move and the two couldn't play in the postseason, Bielecki stepped into the team's fifth starter role and Berryhill became the starting catcher the following season.




THE WORST
1. David Justice: After being a Braves outfield fixture, helping the team win the 1995 World Series with a Game 6 homer, Justice was traded to Cleveland, along with Marquis Grissom, for Alan Embree and Kenny Lofton on March 25, 1997. Justice went on to play in the World Series for Cleveland and the Yankees. "When I was traded, it was like I was being taken away from my family," Justice said earlier this year when he was inducted into the Braves Hall of Fame.
2. J.D. Drew: The Braves acquired Drew in a trade with St. Louis on Dec. 13, 2003, giving up pitchers Jason Marquis, Adam Wainwright and Ray King. Drew spent one season with the Braves before leaving via free agency. Marquis and King played for St. Louis in the World Series in 2004 and Wainwright won a world title with the Cardinals in 2006.
3. Albie Lopez: The pitcher signed with the Braves in December 2001 for $4 million after a combined record of 9-19 with Tampa Bay and Arizona. A resurrection of his career never happened has he won just one game with the Braves before leaving via free agency.
4. Mike Hampton: Acquired in a trade with Florida in November 2002, Hampton was supposed to a be another ace of the Braves pitching staff. The move looked genius with the Marlins picking up a large portion of Hampton's rich contract. However, Hampton has missed the last two seasons with injury, when counted on to be the No. 3 starter. The Braves are on the hook for his $15 million salary next season.
5. Dan Kolb: In search for a closer with John Smoltz moving back to the starting rotation, Kolb was acquired in a trade with Milwaukee, where he had 39 saves, in December 2004. He never panned out. He went 3-8 with a 5.93 ERA and just 11 saves with the Braves and was replaced as closer. He wasn't re-signed.

Source (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/10/11/bravesmoves_1012.html)

[KB21]

It's not Roger's job on the major league level to develop players. It's the job of the minor league systems to develop young players.

Roger can tell and teach everything he wants, but he can't go out and throw the ball for them.

Leo was god-like because he had the best pitchers in the game pitching for him. I could have been a Hall of Famer if I had Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine heading my staff for years on end. How much "coaching" do you think he actually had to do with that group?

Talk about the reclamation projects all you want, but if you were a pitcher trying to make your comeback, wouldn't you have a little extra incentive to impress guys like Smoltz, Maddux and Glavine?

I just can't call Roger a bad coach until he has something to work with. In his first year, Ken Ray was the best we had in the bullpen ... KEN RAY! That's not me calling him a good coach, however.

After given the pieces needed, he turned the bullpen around and they were pretty damn good this past year.

Now after Smoltz and Hudson, he had nothing to work with in the rotation. After he gets the pieces he needs for the rotation this winter, I would expect to see some great improvement in the staff.

If Roger supposed to go live with Chuck during the off-season and say, "now Chuck, instead of driving your work truck to install that window, why don't you run there to build up your endurance."

When a pitcher is young in the majors, there is still a developmental period there for them. Every young pitcher this guy has touched has turned into crap though, and that's including his stint at a AAA pitching coach with the Dodgers.

Jo Jo Reyes got more out of being sent down to Richmond this past season while working with Guy Hansen than he did when he got moved up to Atlanta the first time. Hansen did things with his delivery that Roger McDowell never even considered doing.

[BGarrett7]

Jo Jo Reyes got more out of being sent down to Richmond this past season while working with Guy Hansen than he did when he got moved up to Atlanta the first time. Hansen did things with his delivery that Roger McDowell never even considered doing.When a pitcher simply is not ready to be in the Bigs, there isn't a great deal a ML pitching coach can do.

[Martin Kove]

THE BEST
1. Fred McGriff: On July 18, 1993, Schuerholz brought the first baseman to the Braves in a trade with San Diego for minor leaguers Donnie Elliot, Vincent Moore and Melvin Nieves. The Braves go on to win the NL West by one game as McGriff had 19 homers and 55 RBIs in 68 games. McGriff was a three-time All-Star with the Braves.
2. Greg Maddux: Prior to the 1993 season, Schuerholz signed the free-agent pitcher coming off his first Cy Young season. Maddux joined John Smoltz and Tom Glavine to make up one of the best staffs ever assembled. He won the Cy Young award the next three seasons.
3. Terry Pendleton, Sid Bream, Rafael Belliard: All three were signed as a free agents in December 1990 and became key parts of the Braves as the went from worst to first. Pendleton went on the win the NL MVP in 1991 as the Braves started run of 14 straight division titles. We all remember what Bream did.
4. Alejandro Pena: The reliever was acquired on Aug. 29, 1991. It was Pena who closed out games down the stretch as the Braves won the division by one game.
5. Mike Bielecki, Damon Berryhill: The two were acquired in a trade with the Chicago Cubs on Sept. 29, 1991. It's the kind of move that came to symbolize Schuerholz. While it seemed like a minor move and the two couldn't play in the postseason, Bielecki stepped into the team's fifth starter role and Berryhill became the starting catcher the following season.




THE WORST
1. David Justice: After being a Braves outfield fixture, helping the team win the 1995 World Series with a Game 6 homer, Justice was traded to Cleveland, along with Marquis Grissom, for Alan Embree and Kenny Lofton on March 25, 1997. Justice went on to play in the World Series for Cleveland and the Yankees. "When I was traded, it was like I was being taken away from my family," Justice said earlier this year when he was inducted into the Braves Hall of Fame.
2. J.D. Drew: The Braves acquired Drew in a trade with St. Louis on Dec. 13, 2003, giving up pitchers Jason Marquis, Adam Wainwright and Ray King. Drew spent one season with the Braves before leaving via free agency. Marquis and King played for St. Louis in the World Series in 2004 and Wainwright won a world title with the Cardinals in 2006.
3. Albie Lopez: The pitcher signed with the Braves in December 2001 for $4 million after a combined record of 9-19 with Tampa Bay and Arizona. A resurrection of his career never happened has he won just one game with the Braves before leaving via free agency.
4. Mike Hampton: Acquired in a trade with Florida in November 2002, Hampton was supposed to a be another ace of the Braves pitching staff. The move looked genius with the Marlins picking up a large portion of Hampton's rich contract. However, Hampton has missed the last two seasons with injury, when counted on to be the No. 3 starter. The Braves are on the hook for his $15 million salary next season.
5. Dan Kolb: In search for a closer with John Smoltz moving back to the starting rotation, Kolb was acquired in a trade with Milwaukee, where he had 39 saves, in December 2004. He never panned out. He went 3-8 with a 5.93 ERA and just 11 saves with the Braves and was replaced as closer. He wasn't re-signed.

Source (http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/10/11/bravesmoves_1012.html)


That is some good stuff, I still think the deal that sent Boone & Klesko to SD for Wally Joiner, Quilvio Veras and Reggie Sanders was one of the worst deals JS ever made.
I do wonder if Wren is going to be as tight liped about pending moves as JS was.

[Macquiao]

my heart just droped i loved JS and im at work reading this game gettin teary eyed i was expecting this next season but not this offseason. Bobby probably retires next season to that will also be a sad day end of an era and the start of a new one. Hopefully nothing much changes.
uhh are you really crying

[dogmanx23]

uhh are you really crying

i cant discuss that at this moment (js thought me that :) )

[Blain34]

My heart stopped when I saw this on the ESPNEWS breaking news box.

[McCarroll21]

My heart stopped when I saw this on the ESPNEWS breaking news box.
Which likely meant we already had 3 pages of discussion by the time it was ESPN's Breaking News.

[JCStone7]

Wren names his assistant (http://www.ajc.com/services/content/sports/braves/stories/2007/10/22/bravesgm_1023.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=21)

[McCarroll21]

Great. Hopefully no one tells him that Albert Belle is without a team.

[Chris_Moderato]

Great. Hopefully no one tells him that Albert Belle is without a team.


I wonder what B.J. Surhoff is up to...