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View Full Version : Andruw Left Off Rawlings All-Time Gold Glove Team


HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN
08-22-2007, 10:34 AM
Maddux gets the nod for pitchers

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2985977
JCStone57
08-22-2007, 10:36 AM
I don't see him being better than Mays, Clemente, and Griffey. So it's hard to argue
MSU Bulldog
08-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Jayson Starks influence.
BGarrett7
08-22-2007, 10:49 AM
Considering the master list was based off of only previous Golden Glove winners, the the short list was composed by an "expert group" chosen by Rawlings and the winners were voted on by fans, this list is worthless.

That being said, I do agree with the selection of Mays, Griffey and Clemente.

Also of note is the true embarrassment: Jim Edmonds was nearly a winner.
josephw000
08-22-2007, 01:37 PM
Also of note is the true embarrassment: Jim Edmonds was nearly a winner.

Thats wut pissed me off, he was 9% shy of Griffey, where the hell was AJ on that...Cant argue with Clemente, Mays and Griffey though, thats a hell of an outfield.
Preacher
08-22-2007, 01:49 PM
I think you can put Andruw in his prime up with those three; probably not above; but right there.

Jim Edmonds getting mentioned is ridiculous.
Nic
08-22-2007, 02:42 PM
The fact that anybody beat out Robby Alomar at 2nd base makes that list completely worthless to me.
Rick
08-22-2007, 03:06 PM
The fact that the final vote was by the fans makes this poll suspect . It means that they went mainly by the highlight films they've seen over the years . I'm sure most never saw Mays or Clemente actually play .

I'll tell you a secret from an old-time fan - Hank Aaron was as good a right fielder as Clemente . Hank won the first 3 Gold Gloves given for right-fielders in 1957, 1958 and 1959 . Then Clemente took over as the yearly winner , I think because he was flashier than Hank not because he was better . Hank always made it look easy and was taken for granted . Clemente liked to show off his arm and, with a runner at first and a hit to right field, he threw all the way to third , overthrowing the cut-off man . Now if he got the lead runner at third , that was fine ( those are the ones you see in the highlight film ) but if he didn't then the batter could take second because he missed the cut-off man and you had both runners in scoring position. The Braves used to do this against Clemente all the time .

BTW as you can tell , the early Gold Gloves were given to the best LF, CF and RF in the outfield . Then sometime over the years they changed it to the best 3 outfielders , regardless of position . Well naturally, that meant that all 3 winners were usually centerfielders since they are the best on any given team . That never made sense to me . How are you to know who was regarded as the best LF of his day ? For example , on this All-Time poll , you have 2 centerfielders and a rightfielder as winners .
BeastinBraves10
08-22-2007, 03:18 PM
well it's from espn, so :espnsucks:
BGarrett7
08-22-2007, 03:24 PM
well it's from espn, so :espnsucks:Actually, it's from the AP...
BeastinBraves10
08-22-2007, 03:27 PM
espn had something to do with it.
BGarrett7
08-22-2007, 03:35 PM
espn had something to do with it.Did they? Because I can't find the slightest bit of evidence linking ESPN to this in any way.
BeastinBraves10
08-22-2007, 03:37 PM
the link said espn and i didn't see the AP thing at the top.
BGarrett7
08-22-2007, 03:40 PM
Good job of blindly criticizing ESPN for actually doing what they are supposed to do: report news.
cjones1999
08-22-2007, 05:42 PM
I'll tell you a secret from an old-time fan - Hank Aaron was as good a right fielder as Clemente . Hank won the first 3 Gold Gloves given for right-fielders in 1957, 1958 and 1959 . Then Clemente took over as the yearly winner , I think because he was flashier than Hank not because he was better . Hank always made it look easy and was taken for granted . Clemente liked to show off his arm and, with a runner at first and a hit to right field, he threw all the way to third , overthrowing the cut-off man .

You damn right there, that's why Hank is the greatest player ever-over Babe ruth. Also, does anyone ever remember that Hank had pretty good wheels too? Anybody? *crickets* *owls* ESPN or anyone else, for that matter,does not acknowledge that.

Edmonds on the list, is just plain insane. whoever voted him for gold glove has honestly lost it.
cjones1999
08-22-2007, 05:44 PM
Good job of blindly criticizing ESPN for actually doing what they are supposed to do: report news.
dude, ease up.
brnt247
08-22-2007, 05:48 PM
Babe Ruth was better, not in the field... but as a hitter he was.
cjones1999
08-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Babe Ruth was better, not in the field... but as a hitter he was.
What would you say if I said Alfonso Soriano is the best player in the league? you would probably say i'm crazy not to say Pujols,right? Well, being a great player does NOT mean JUST being a great hitter. You have to be a great fielder, hitter, and a great baserunner. that being said, Hank is the G.O.A.T. (greatest of all time) with Willie mays second.
GrandMasterB
08-22-2007, 05:56 PM
What would you say if I said Alfonso Soriano is the best player in the league? you would probably say i'm crazy not to say Pujols,right? Well, being a great player does NOT mean JUST being a great hitter. You have to be a great fielder, hitter, and a great baserunner. that being said, Hank is the G.O.A.T. (greatest of all time) with Willie mays second.

How many games did you see Hank Aaron or Willie Mays, or anyone before the 90s for that matter, play in?
cjones1999
08-22-2007, 05:58 PM
damn ESPN, ya have to be 18 to tell it like it is when a 15 year old is smarter than half of the posters on the ESPN conversation. They are saying Edmonds is better than AJ on that damn thing.
brnt247
08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
Well, being a great player does NOT mean JUST being a great hitter.

Babe Ruth was dominantly better than Hank Aaron. His career 1.164 OPS shuts down anything Aaron could do offensively, and fuck defense in right field. He created 200 more runs offensively than Aaron and Aaron had 400 more at bats. He created more than Aaron created and prevented combined. There's no stats to saying how many he prevented, but he didn't prevent 200 more than Ruth did, I can guarantee that.
cjones1999
08-22-2007, 06:00 PM
How many games did you see Hank Aaron or Willie Mays, or anyone before the 90s for that matter, play in?
hate to be a smartass, but that's what biogophies are used for. Learning about people that made themselves famous before you were born. And also, that's what stats are for.
brnt247
08-22-2007, 06:01 PM
hate to be a smartass, but that's what biogophies are used for. Learning about people that made themselves famous before you were born. And also, that's what stats are for.

And the stats show that it isn't even close.
McCarroll21
08-22-2007, 06:02 PM
hate to be a smartass, but that's what biogophies are used for. Learning about people that made themselves famous before you were born. And also, that's what stats are for.
Shut up Phil.
BeastinBraves10
08-22-2007, 06:03 PM
Shut up Phil.
:clap:
GrandMasterB
08-22-2007, 06:04 PM
hate to be a smartass, but that's what biogophies are used for. Learning about people that made themselves famous before you were born. And also, that's what stats are for.

Well if you're going by that, most baseball historians would place Mays ahead of Aaron.
cjones1999
08-22-2007, 06:05 PM
And the stats show that it isn't even close.
and i have moved on from Babe Ruth now. Hank was a lot more complete. Well-roundedly amazing, to me, beats out freakish hitting. I'm done with Ruth now. This is starting to sound like the Offense-Defense debate we had a while back.

And i guess being a teenager sucks because nobody sees the point in what I am saying.
brnt247
08-22-2007, 06:08 PM
and i have moved on from Babe Ruth now. Hank was a lot more complete. Well-roundedly amazing, to me, beats out freakish hitting. I'm done with Ruth now. This is starting to sound like the Offense-Defense debate we had a while back.

And i guess being a teenager sucks because nobody sees the point of what you are saying.

I'm 18. But it isn't the point I don't see. It's the logic.
BGarrett7
08-22-2007, 06:10 PM
Well-roundedly amazing, to me, beats out freakish hitting.Wanna know what I see as being well-rounded? Winning nearly 100 games on the mound, having a sub-1.00 ERA in three undefeated World Series starts and managing to hit 714 career homers after that.


And i guess being a teenager sucks because nobody sees the point of what you are saying.Not knowing what you are talking about has a lot more to do with that than your age, my friend.
Hobbes
08-22-2007, 09:32 PM
People don't just label Ruth the greatest player ever because they have a soft spot for the jolly old fellow. Plenty of people have been crunching stats for plenty of years, and Ruth always comes out ahead of Aaron. Aaron was a great player, but his impressive career totals are mostly a function of longevity.

Do you really wonder why folks find it hard to believe you have discovered a new "angle" on this, one that has managed to elude all of those countless others in decades of detailed baseball analysis?
MSU Bulldog
08-23-2007, 09:19 AM
hate to be a smartass, but that's what biogophies are used for.

Hate to be a smart ass, but what's a "biogophies"?
JCStone57
08-23-2007, 09:25 AM
Hate to be a smart ass, but what's a "biogophies"?

That must be the new high school slang for biographies. Word
unspiritual
08-23-2007, 09:32 AM
Hate to be a smart ass, but what's a "biogophies"?

Take it easy on on the poor guy. He's already caveated all his arguments by saying he's a teenager. Don't hate him for being a smart ass. :rolleyes: