Braves should re-sign Adam LaRoche

[BobbyDooDoo]

After the trade from Boston and his last season in Atlanta in 2005 it is quit obvious to me that Adam LaRoche should stay with the Braves. Not only do I feel that he should remain a Brave in 2010 but I feel that we need to lock him up long term. I am well aware of Freddie Freemen but lets not forget the last time we thought we had LaRoche's replacement we ended up with a major bust (Scott Thorman). I'm not saying Freeman will be a bust but in my opinion he won't be better than LaRoche and there is no certain guarantee that he will be as good as LaRoche especially in the next few years. The Braves have talked about and fans have talked about adding an outfielder with power but I believe that adding LaRoche with Heyward and Schafer is better long term than going with Freeman and spending money on an outfielder. With Hudson or Vazuez's contract most likely off the books after this season along with likely Garrett's, Kelly's, and either Soriano or Gonzalez the Braves will have a lot of money to spend and then can use some of that on LaRoche and have a proven player who has proven himself with this club. Also signing LaRoche would give us a great trade chip in Freemen and if we want to add an experienced outfielder we could package Freemen with Vazquez for that bat. I also believe that economically LaRoche will be much cheaper than Bay or Holliday.

Keep in mind the Braves haven't had a permanent first basemen for any length of time since McGriff, signing LaRoche would fix this question once and for all. The Braves will have to use $$ on a 1B in the offseason anyway if they use the possible LaRoche money on an outfielder b/c the Braves don't have a ready 1B while they have several MLB ready Outfielders.

[HTF]

I agree with some of your points.

I think people are overrating FF, I don't think he's going to be a star but that's just my personal opinion. LaRoche is consistent for the most part. You know what you are going to get. I'm all for signing him at a reasonable contract. If we can get a premium return for Freeman I'd do it.

Another option I'd look into if Kevin Towers wasn't such an idiot is putting together a big package for Gonzo but that's not going to happen.

[BobbyDooDoo]

I agree with some of your points.

I think people are overrating FF, I don't think he's going to be a star but that's just my personal opinion. LaRoche is consistent for the most part. You know what you are going to get. I'm all for signing him at a reasonable contract. If we can get a premium return for Freeman I'd do it.

Another option I'd look into if Kevin Towers wasn't such an idiot is putting together a big package for Gonzo but that's not going to happen.

I just see both Schafer and Heyward being better than Freeman but also believe we need someone with MLB experience at one of those three positions. If some how Freemen is a bust then we are screwed at 1B, if Schafer is a bust we have options. Remember Thorman being a bust is the reason for that horrible Teixeira deal.

[McCarroll21]

This will likely get sent to the payroll thread for 2010 soon, but we'll go ahead and have the discussion and see where it goes. How much would you offer LaRoche? And how long?

Just playing devil's advocate here...

Why do you feel so strongly that LaRoche will be good for us next year? Don't be naive into thinking that the Adam LaRoche we're seeing now is what we'd get over a full season, it wouldn't be close to that. He sleeps from April to the middle of July every year.

Why do you think Schafer should be in the OF next year? He has missed the last year and a half in his development due to suspension and injury. I'm in the camp that believes his injury is what prevented him from being successful in the majors this year, but that's still a lot of developmental time to miss out on.

Do you really think Schafer would outproduce the Church/Diaz platoon? He may over time, but that platoon situation is no joke and I wouldn't count on him doing it next year. I'd rather have Schafer at AAA getting some of his development back.

Instead of signing LaRoche to basically put a firm timetable on Freeman's arrival (not saying LaRoche would block Freeman, but it'd make it hard to call Freeman up if he shows he's ready), why not use Freeman in a trade to get a power bat at 1B? If upgrading at 1B is what you're wanting, I think that's the best plan.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I just see both Schafer and Heyward being better than Freeman but also believe we need someone with MLB experience at one of those three positions. I just get a horrible feeling that Freemen could be a bust.

I think it's a little early to be fearing that Freeman will be a bust. He isn't even 20 years old. If I'm not mistaken, he has been dealing with injuries this year as well. That doesn't excuse his production at Mississippi, which is at the level of his rookie year, completely.

That being said, locking up LaRoche for a few years is an attractive option. You know what you're getting with him (okay 1st half, freakish 2nd half), and having him man first gives Freeman time to develop.

[BobbyDooDoo]

Okay McCarroll, imagine this:

LaRoche signs elsewhere in the offseason. The Braves then sign an outfielder to 3 year contract of around 24M, LaRoche signs similar deal elsewhere. Then who plays 1B for the Braves? (Keep in mind that the Braves aren't spending a lot of $$ lately). I know your question would be about who plays the outfielder? But you answered that yourself when you talked about a Diaz/Church platoon which we could use if Schafer or Heyward isn't ready. Say though we do what a lot of people want and either give LaRoche arbitration or sign him until Freeman is ready, then we lose a proven MLB player in LaRoche when Freemen is ready and then take a step backward with a rookie.

About Schafer not being ready, well you answered my thinking of signing LaRoche b/c you stated the outfield options, what is the other 1B option? Prado- then who plays 2B, Chipper- who plays 3B.

And about using Freemen for a power hitting proven firstbasmen via trade, why not sign LaRoche then we can have a proven power hitting outfielder and a proven power hitting 1B?

[HTF]

Okay McCarroll, imagine this:

LaRoche signs elsewhere in the offseason. The Braves then sign an outfielder to 3 year contract of around 24M, LaRoche signs similar deal elsewhere. Then who plays 1B for the Braves? (Keep in mind that the Braves aren't spending a lot of $$ lately). I know your question would be about who plays the outfielder? But you answered that yourself when you talked about a Diaz/Church platoon which we could use if Schafer or Heyward isn't ready. Say though we do what a lot of people want and either give LaRoche arbitration or sign him until Freeman is ready, then we lose a proven MLB player in LaRoche.

About Schafer not being ready, well you answered my thinking of signing LaRoche b/c you stated the outfield options, what is the other 1B option? Prado- then who plays 2B, Chipper- who plays 3B.

And about using Freemen for a power hitting proven firstbasmen via trade, why not sign LaRoche then we can have a proven power hitting outfielder and a proven power hitting 1B?
If we trade Freeman, why not just go ahead and convert Heyward to a 1st baseman and sign a corner outfielder? Heyward at 1st with a ?????-Schafer-McLouth outfield isn't too shabby.

[BobbyDooDoo]

If we trade Freeman, why not just go ahead and convert Heyward to a 1st baseman and sign a corner outfielder? Heyward at 1st with a ?????-Schafer-McLouth outfield isn't too shabby.

You don't use 5-tool players at 1B.

[HTF]

You don't use 5-tool players at 1B.
Derek Lee disagrees.

[BobbyDooDoo]

Derek Lee disagrees.

Derek Lee isn't nearly as fast as Heyward no does he have the cannon that Heyward does. A Schafer-McLouth-Heyward outfield would be by far the best defensive outfield in the MLB.

[BF91]

Derek Lee isn't nearly as fast as Heyward no does he have the cannon that Heyward does. A Schafer-McLouth-Heyward outfield would be by far the best defensive outfield in the MLB.

Derek Lee certainly was "Heyward-esque" at one point in his career. A lot of things I've read in the past say that Heyward compares favorably to a left-handed Derek Lee.

And with that outfield configuration, McLouth should be nowhere near CF.

[McCarroll21]

I'm not suggesting they sign an outfielder, so I don't know why you're directing that question at me. The solution is a stopgap 1B or trade Freeman in a package for a long-term 1B. Adding any outfielders to the mix right now would be foolish.

The point is, Adam LaRoche isn't that good. He's an above average player (123-128 OPS+) and when you take the position he plays into account, it becomes even more average (103-105 sOPS+). You can get that by trading for a stopgap guy, a guy like Jorge Cantu (not saying it would be him, but someone similar) that'd be here for one year and then turn the page and start the Freeman era. You don't have to buy three years of average, just get one year of average and see where it goes.

Obviously if you're trading Freeman in a package, you're going to get someone much better than LaRoche in return and you aren't going to trade him for a rental so the need to have someone there to take over for him isn't as great.

I'm not saying I'd be upset if they bring LaRoche back. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate to cover all sides of it. I think he's a solid fit here, but I think there are better fits to be had when taking it year by year and looking down the line. I just think people are caught up in what they're seeing right now and think that's what they'll get out of him, and it's not. He's been around long enough that his defined splits are pretty telling. There aren't any fluky trends anymore with guys in their 6th major league season.

[timmy]

I'm not suggesting they sign an outfielder, so I don't know why you're directing that question at me. The solution is a stopgap 1B or trade Freeman in a package for a long-term 1B. Adding any outfielders to the mix right now would be foolish.

The point is, Adam LaRoche isn't that good. He's an above average player (123-128 OPS+) and when you take the position he plays into account, it becomes even more average (103-105 sOPS+). You can get that by trading for a stopgap guy, a guy like Jorge Cantu (not saying it would be him, but someone similar) that'd be here for one year and then turn the page and start the Freeman era. You don't have to buy three years of average, just get one year of average and see where it goes.

Obviously if you're trading Freeman in a package, you're going to get someone much better than LaRoche in return and you aren't going to trade him for a rental so the need to have someone there to take over for him isn't as great.

I'm not saying I'd be upset if they bring LaRoche back. I'm mostly playing devil's advocate to cover all sides of it. I think he's a solid fit here, but I think there are better fits to be had when taking it year by year and looking down the line. I just think people are caught up in what they're seeing right now and think that's what they'll get out of him, and it's not. He's been around long enough that his defined splits are pretty telling. There aren't any fluky trends anymore with guys in their 6th major league season.

Just to add to this... I think LaRoche may be the premiere 1B on the market this winter. Aka, he's a good candidate to get more money than he's worth. Offer him arbitration, see what happens. Don't give him a longterm deal.

[gobravez]

Anybody know if LaRoche is porjected to be either a type-a or type-b FA?

[HTF]

Anybody know if LaRoche is porjected to be either a type-a or type-b FA?
Last I saw he was straddling the cut-line for being a type-B so with his August numbers he's probably solidified type-B status.

[BobbyDooDoo]

Just to add to this... I think LaRoche may be the premiere 1B on the market this winter. Aka, he's a good candidate to get more money than he's worth. Offer him arbitration, see what happens. Don't give him a longterm deal.


The thing is the Braves will need to spend money on both the outfield and 1B then b/c by losing LaRoche they have to have a 1B and an even better outfielder and higher price outfielder to makeup for the loss of LaRoche. Then the problem with LaRoche being the top 1B is that there is no real other alternative. Good thing is that the Red Sox, Cubs, Yankees, Dodgers, Phillies, and Angels. are set at 1B so that limits the salary that LaRoche could possibly get. The Mets are the only big spenders in need of a 1B and there are questions if they can spend money b/c of their owners great loss of income.

[Meat]

The more I think about this the more unsure I am. I could almost flip a coin. If Adam ends up with some sizable offers elsewhere, we should let him walk I say. If that's the case, a utility guy with some pop who could play both corners and fill in for Chipper might be the better option.

[BobbyDooDoo]

The more I think about this the more unsure I am. I could almost flip a coin. If Adam ends up with some sizable offers elsewhere, we should let him walk I say. If that's the case, a utility guy with some pop who could play both corners and fill in for Chipper might be the better option.

If LaRoche leaves it will be some washed up vet like Delgado, thats the way the Braves work.

[McCarroll21]

Just to add to this... I think LaRoche may be the premiere 1B on the market this winter. Aka, he's a good candidate to get more money than he's worth. Offer him arbitration, see what happens. Don't give him a longterm deal.
Yes. My thought on LaRoche is the same I'd have toward Gonzo and Soriano.

Offer arbitration. If they accept, you get them back for another year. If not, collect some draft picks and move on to the other options out there.

There are plenty of guys that will be available that can play 1B in the form of a stopgap. There's no need in paying all-star type money for an average player over the course of a season.

Now, if you can find a way to sign LaRoche to a one year contract that is only played in the second halves of the next two seasons, let's go for it. :)

[BF91]

If LaRoche leaves it will be some washed up vet like Delgado, thats the way the Braves work.

Delgado was putting up a .900 OPS before he got hurt. He's pretty bad defensively, but his bat is still very much there.

[Brave Henry]

Now, if you can find a way to sign LaRoche to a one year contract that is only played in the second halves of the next two seasons, let's go for it. :)

Yes! I'm sure we can trick the Pirates into doing this somehow.

[mattynokes]

I think we should offer Rochey arby, but nothing long-term. I really don't think we have to or should sign anyone to a multi-year deal in Free Agency (position player wise). I see that only as being a half-assed attempt to compete. I wouldn't sacrific the future to "hope" we'll compete from '10 to '11. I'd rather let the young guns take their hard knocks in 2010 and hope to make runs starting in 2011. We've already got a solid lineup and bench for 2010 without adding anyone...

1. CF McLouth
2. 1B Prado
3. 3B Chipper
4. C McCann
5. SS Escobar
6. RF Heyward
7. 2B Infante
8. LF Church

C Ross
2B Johnson
OF Diaz

This then allows two open spots for a backup infielder and some other guy Bobby likes to just pinch hit and never play the field. Though I'd like to see it, I don't have a lot of optimism for KJ to start. Bobby really needs to take a look at a little site called "baseball-referece.com" and see that KJ can indeed hit lefties and has value. Though if Bobby doesn't return then maybe there's hope.

[Chipper10]

what a good pick up for us. just wish he could have worked his magic with the bases loaded tonight!

chipper

[BF91]

chipper

That's really annoying.

[JohnnieUpahts]

I'd try and get LaRoche for a one or two year deal...either the second year being a team option or throw a third year team option in. If it seems Freeman is ready next season we can bring him up for the year as a primary back up for LaRoche (since if he comes up in June or later it would give the Braves a few extra months before the arb clock kicks in) as well as a pinch hitter to get him some more ML experience at the plate.

Think about it, this way if Freeman comes up and doesn't do too well the Braves still have LaRoche and if Freeman comes up and just tears it up then LaRoche has a half season to a possible season and a half (if the team picked up the hypothetical option)...that would make him more valuable for a team in a trade.

I think if we can get him to agree to the deal for a decent pricetag it'd be worth it...I wouldn't mind seeing him return whatsoever though, would love to see LaRoche as a Brave in 2010.

[BF91]

You don't call prospects up to ride the pine.

[BravesBabe14]

i really like laroche as a braves again....i would love to see a long term deal made

[Brave Henry]

That's really annoying.

x2

brave henry

[Atlanta#1Fan]

x2

brave henry
:lol:IMO one of the funniest posts ive seen....lol

[JohnnieUpahts]

You don't call prospects up to ride the pine.

I just think that it would be better to have the option of LaRoche in case Freeman doesn't pan out the way that the organization believes he will...we can always deal LaRoche if Freeman winds up being what the FO believes he will be.

[HaRdCoReBrAvEsFaN]

the other option could be to trade Freeman for a long term option @ 3B....For all we know the Braves might opt to move Chipper to first the last yr or 2 of his contract....

[BF91]

Since we're talking about Adam in this thread I figured it should go here. LaLa has played himself to Type B free agent status. http://www.scribd.com/doc/19216605/Rankings-082909

[JT Jag]

the other option could be to trade Freeman for a long term option @ 3B....For all we know the Braves might opt to move Chipper to first the last yr or 2 of his contract....I wonder if we could nab Mark Reynolds somehow. Dude has power, speed and hits for decent average, and he's just 26.

[vnodnarb]

the other option could be to trade Freeman for a long term option @ 3B....For all we know the Braves might opt to move Chipper to first the last yr or 2 of his contract....

This should definitely be explored, Chipper's defense this year has been piss poor. It's kind of weird because it was above average last year, but it's obviously not getting any better in the next 3 years.

[BF91]

I wonder if we could nab Mark Reynolds somehow. Dude has power, speed and hits for decent average, and he's just 26.

There's really not much of a chance unless you want to tear down a large part of our farm system/young talent. Reynolds is a beast, almost untouchable from AZ's perspective, and it would take a Teixeria-like or bigger haul to land him.

[JT Jag]

There's really not much of a chance unless you want to tear down a large part of our farm system/young talent. Reynolds is a beast, almost untouchable from AZ's perspective, and it would take a Teixeria-like or bigger haul to land him.The real question is how long is Reynolds' contract?

[BF91]

The real question is how long is Reynolds' contract?

He's in his second year of team control, so that means that we'd have him for four years in the unlikely event that he's traded. Him and Upton are the cornerstones of that offense, young, and cheap, so any wish for Reynolds is really nothing short of a pipe dream.

[JT Jag]

Hm. Well, remember: We'll need a real gamechanger if we want to replace Chipper, and he'll have to be fairly young if he's to be a long-term replacement.

The key might be contract length. We'll have issues trading for a game-changer, so who will be available in free agency a could years down the road?

Ryan Zimmerman would have been PERFECT: His contract was up at the end of this year. He'd have made an ideal target for us. But he re-signed with the Nats (which was a bit of a dumb move imo, but I don't know about his situation so I can't judge).

[McCarroll21]

Ryan Zimmerman would have been PERFECT: His contract was up at the end of this year. He'd have made an ideal target for us. But he re-signed with the Nats (which was a bit of a dumb move imo, but I don't know about his situation so I can't judge).
Zimmerman's contract wasn't up at the end of the year. He's only got 3 years of service time coming into the season. They bought out his arbitration years and some free agency. Ryan Zimmerman is their franchise player. He's going to get whatever he wants in Washington.

There's nothing dumb about staying at home to play for your hometown team while being the face of the franchise and making loads of cash. He's big in the community in Washington, as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he stays in Washington for his entire career. He's got it made there. The only reason he may leave is if the Nationals never work on building a contender, but I think they're on their way to doing that.

[BobbyDooDoo]

Zimmerman's contract wasn't up at the end of the year. He's only got 3 years of service time coming into the season. They bought out his arbitration years and some free agency. Ryan Zimmerman is their franchise player. He's going to get whatever he wants in Washington.

There's nothing dumb about staying at home to play for your hometown team while being the face of the franchise and making loads of cash. He's big in the community in Washington, as well. It wouldn't surprise me if he stays in Washington for his entire career. He's got it made there. The only reason he may leave is if the Nationals never work on building a contender, but I think they're on their way to doing that.

Zimmerman, Strasburg, and that kid from Vegas they will draft are three big guns to build a franchise around.

[RollBravesRoll]

In case you're interested, BD, here (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/split.cgi?n1=larocad01&year=Career&t=b#month) are LaRoche's monthly splits over his now 6 year career in the majors. Like McCarroll said, he's now up to an entire season's worth of PA's for each month, so it's more than fair to say you know what you're going to get out of him, which is not much in April, May, and June, and then very solid production in July, August, and July. While I have no problem with us offering him arbitration, then getting the draft picks if he turns us down, or even inking him to a middle of the road contract for 2 or 3 years, I think that with the upcoming FA market being incredibly thin for 1B this off-season, I think that numbers Rochey is putting up since we acquired him is playing him into a much higher contract than I'd feel comfortable being tied up with.

1B is one of the positions that you expect a lot of production in your lineup out of. If you spend a lot of money on signing a 1B, the guy needs to be capable of hitting right in the middle of your order, something we all know Rochey can't do the first half of the season. It's not like he's putting up such impressive numbers in the 2nd halves of seasons to make up for not waking up until July either. Here are his career numbers (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/larocad01.shtml) broken down by season. He's only had one season (2006) where his final stats would justify locking him up to a long-term deal.

[MTMRadio.net]

All comes down to money, how much Laroche will demand and how many years. 2 years would probably work both ways. From talking to him you can tell that Laroche is extremely happy to be back with Atlanta and his buddies (Chipper, McCann)